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(re: re: re: When did the ‘demise’ start?)
> Not many new Adventure games on PC anymore.
This is a very common misconception. It’s just not true.
Adventure games released in the past year:
Syberia
Dark Fall (indy, recently distributed by Dreamcatcher)
Law & Order
CSI
Jazz & Faust
Shadow of Destiny (PC port)
The Omega Stone
Runaway
Post Mortem
Salammbo
Watchmakerand plenty of others, but these are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.
Upcoming adventures:
Broken Sword 3
Syberia 2
The Longest Journey 2
Law & Order 2
Schizm 2
Dark Fall 2
Full Throttle 2
Sam & Max 2
Uru (online ages of Myst)among others, I’m sure, but again this is off the top of my head. Plus Jane Jensen’s game and the new Tex Murphy are in development. Not to mention indy (i.e., The Sydney Mystery) and fan games (i.e., Tierra’s King’s Quest 2 remake, the upcoming KQ9).
Okay, here are what I see as the important points.
1) Overall, as many commercial adventure games are being released each year as were released by Sierra each year in the 80s and early 90s (when Sierra dominated the industry). The difference is, now the games are distributed by various companies, not just one.
2) MANY of the upcoming games (all of the ones I listed, actually) are sequels to games that did well last year or did well in the past. A major indication that the genre is on an upswing.
I’m sorry if I’m repeating myself, but I can never pass up an opportunity to dispell the myth that the adventure genre is dead on the PC. It’s not! You might need to look a little harder, because these games tend not to get much shelf space (if any), but they’re easy enough to buy online. It doesn’t even take much research to find out about new adventure releases… just go to one of the news sites devoted to adventures (see links below).
Anyway, I’m very glad to hear that the article won’t be about the “death” of the adventure genre… I could even get into a debate about whether the genre is “sleeping,” but that might be beating a… err… sleeping horse.
🙂 emily
(re: re: When did the ‘demise’ start?)
I wouldn’t say adventure games are “dead.” I’d say they have evolved. If you use the defination of an adventure game as a point and click game like what Sierra used to do, then yes, they aren’t made anymore. however, if you use the defination that an adventure game is one where it doesn’t focus on lots of action, stragity, and other game types (it’s more of an interactive game, not kill’em all send in armies, and fly a simulator), then i’d say it’s adventure.
Not an old style adventure though. “The Legend of Zelda” has always been classified an adventure game. Nintendo released a new one this year. I’d also say that “Metroid Prime” is also an adventure game because it doesn’t have the normal FPS attitude to it. It’s more of an “explore-the-cave-and-search-out-new-things” feel (not DOOM style).
Of course if you focus on PC then i’d say that adventure gaming is mostly dead. Not many new Adventure games on PC anymore.
(re: re: Computer Sound) The other computers utilized their own soundchips to generate the sounds…I guess the Tandy would be best for the old PC speaker-only games since it had a three-voice speaker compared to the one-voiced the PC had.
The last Amiga games from Sierra even came with a Roland MT-32 driver which you could use to hook up your Amiga to a Roland MT-32 and get the same music as the PC-version. You needed a MIDI interface for that though. I believe Sierra was the only game company that supported the MT-32 in their Amiga versions.(re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Sierra Classics) There is a site on the internet that claims they’ve gotten the non-exclusive rights to post the Amiga versions of old games. Among those companies is Sierra. Their site can be found at:
Link: http://www.back2roots.org/(http://www.back2roots.org/)
A great site to get old games legally…though they only have the Amiga versions. The only Sierra adventure game I can see that they’re lacking is the remake of Larry 1 and the English version of Space Quest 4. An emulator to play these games can be found at
Link: http://winuae.net(http://winuae.net)
You’ll also need an Amiga ROM to use the emulator, but I’m not gonna post it here since Amiga is a bit protective about it.(re: re: re: When did the ‘demise’ start?) Thank you for your answer, Ken! What I still don’t understand is the following: a company buys Sierra On-Line and its bestselling adventure game franchises. They opt to break away from the ‘winning team’ formula and see the results afterwards: bad reviews ánd sales of the game (KQ8). There are still other succesfull franchises left (Space Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, …) Why – at that moment – not go back to the winning formula and create a new ‘old fashioned’ adventure game?? After all, as Ken says, good games do sell … I know, not an easy question, and I can understand if you don’t have an answer ready :).
Does somebody know if GK3 sold well? After all, it was one of the last adventure games that Sierra made …
It sure won’t be an ‘the adventure genre is dead’ article, rest assured. I want to explain to the readers how the genre started, how it evolved, … and where it stands now (‘sleeping’ in mass terms, but certainly not dead!). I’m especially looking forward to the adventure game that Jane Jensen is developing for The Adventure Company and the new Broken Sword game.Grtz,
Emmanuel(re: re: When did the ‘demise’ start?)
good answer!
I hope this won’t be another “the adventure genre is dead” article. So much has happened in the past few years to prove otherwise.
-emily
(re: When did the ‘demise’ start?) Kings Quest was less of an adventure game because it was less of a Roberta game. KQ8 was in development at the same time the company was sold. The new owners made the decision to NOT give Roberta the same unwavering support that I had – and, other people were able to get their ideas into the game. Some of these ideas were great ideas, but they weren’t Robertas. Ultimately, KQ8 was a bust, and I suspect Sierra blames Roberta, although I have no way of knowing. In hers and my opinion, her track record speaks for itself; 15 (or so) hits done when she had control of a project, and one disaster, which just happened to be the one where she didn’t have control. The whole thing was a mess, and was settled amongst threats of litigation.
With respect to when adventure games stopped selling, I don’t know. Great games have always sold, and mediocre games have always bombed. I’m confident that if Al Lowe did a Larry 8 today, it would sell as well as it ever would have. By this I do not mean that it should look exactly like prior games. Every game has a responsibility to move the state of the art forward. Resting on status quo is a formula for disaster. In other words, a new adventure game would sell – if it were innovative, AND a good game. You need both.
-Ken W(re: Sierra Classics)
Hey Emily, exactly the same for me! The first Sierra game I remember playing was SQ3, which my Dad brought home from work. Then I remember a whole slew of others, some which my Dad brought home, and then some which we started to buy. When I was old enough I was able to start buying some games myself… but I believed they’d be there forever, and I didn’t buy enough before they all disappeared. I’m always looking for original copies of Sierra games at not-too-expensive prices, since like you, I’d rather have the original game and documentation if I can get it. I’m sure many other Sierra fans have memories just like this.
(re: re: re: re: re: re: Sierra Classics)
About three years ago, Sierra’s lawyers sent cease and desist letters to a bunch of abandonware sites, and the old games were removed from those sites. Many of the games have since cropped up on abandonware sites again. I don’t know how long it took for this to happen, or if Sierra has taken any further action since then.
They’re easy enough to find using google — but since Ken said he doesn’t mind, here are two good links:
http://www.the-underdogs.org
http://www.abandongames.com/ Most of the games i’ve downloaded, I did before Sierra’s lawyers requested to have them removed. (I also felt kind of justified because many of those games I did own, at one time or another, but they were all Apple or Mac games and became obsolete as technology changed, or the disks went bad…) I have also been known to buy old games even if I have a downloaded copy. In fact, I’d rather own legal copies if i can find them. The original documentation (and even the original disks / CDs) are important to me.
I would never download a game that is still sold by the manufacturer… not even some newer old games that are hard to find. If it’s less than 10 years old, the idea of downloading it makes me feel dirty for some reason…
It’s interesting, what the companies have had to go through to protect copyrights. Many of the first Sierra games I played were copies that came from my dad’s coworkers. At the time, it didn’t seem like a bad thing to do. But this seemed to peter out as the games got bigger (probably in part because Sierra, among other companies, made customers aware that piracy was illegal and was taking money out of the pockets of the hardworking developers…)
-emily
(re: Sierra Classics) I don’t agree with openly giving out links. The games are still supported and should not be distributed. If you happen to find them then go ahead…but I won’t be the one to tell you.
Ken, do you mind if I use your opinion on another forum? I have many people there who would love to know how the sierra man himself feels about such a controversial topic. I know it doesn’t seem to important…..but to us we just need to know what the greats behind classics think. I may even ask Al Lowe what he thinks too.Feel free to repost my comments elsewhere (including a link back to this site would be nice..).
Whereas I would not post old Sierra games on this site, I am not opposed to including links to other sites here. I mentioned to one of Sierra’s senior haunchos a couple of years ago that I had found a site from which to download all the old Apple games, and his only comment was to say “cool”. My guess would be that Sierra will never officially bless the downloads, but neither are they likely to spend a lot of money chasing people who download games that can’t be found in any other way.
That said, I feel very differently about people downloading a “really old” game like Kings Quest II than I do people downloading HalfLife. If a product can be found at retail, then any attempt to download it is piracy, and unacceptable behaviour. I see a distinction between preserving history and piracy.
-Ken W
(re: Sierra Classics) While I agree with your opinion from a legal viewpoint, Paul, I have no idea what you mean when you say “the games are still supported.” The games are not supported in any way by Sierra. So, I completely agree with keeping the games alive in any way possible, as Ken said, hate to see them “cease to exist.” If someone asked for a copy of a game I had, I’d send it to them – not only would I send it to them, but if I was sending it to them on CD I’d throw on a whole bunch of other Sierra games too in order to fill up the CD – because I know the only way they could get it is to pay too much on EBay and the only person who profits is the guy who sells it. As for bargain bins, I’ve never seen a Sierra game in a bargain bin. I guess all the software stores around where I live just suck!
But as you say, I do not support posting links or posting requests for games in public places.
What is a viable amount? Obviously there is still demand for old games… But not enough demand to make it viable for Sierra to release big collection packs?(re: Getting into the biz…) Check out this response I gave someone else:
{LINK}14464
and, this one:
{LINK}13964
And….
My sense is that it’s not easy to break into the business as a designer.
If I were you, I’d try the following (and, I have no idea if any of this would work):
Write articles for game magazines – reviews, strategy tips etc. Try to get yourself known to the game companies
Work for a game company. The smaller the better (in small companies it’s easier to get noticed). Do whatever it takes to get in the door. Quality Assurance is usually an easy group to get hired in.
Try building some levels for a game. Some games ship with everything you need to design some levels. Build a level or two.
Learn one of the “easy” programming languages – in particular Flash (Shockwave) … build a game in it. It isn’t that hard, and there is a bit of a market for good flash games
Peruse the forums for a programmer and an artist that want to break into the business. Form a team. Build a game. If its good the whole team will be “launched”
The bottom line is that you need to “do things” – don’t just stand there.
One other idea: there is a computer game school (it’s actually a 4-year college). Check out Digipen – they are great, and most of their alumni do seem to break into the industry.
Good luck!
-Ken W(re: re: I made a lot of Mac and Netscape changes) Emily:
Thanks for the offer. As you correctly surmised, the issue is Netscape. Under Netscape, I don’t support the fancy editor.
It’s not worth your loading Netscape. I have version 4.7 installed on my computer here, and it works fine. If there are problems, someone out there will write me.
-Ken W(re: re: re: re: Sierra Classics) I don’t agree with openly giving out links. The games are still supported and should not be distributed. If you happen to find them then go ahead…but I won’t be the one to tell you.
Ken, do you mind if I use your opinion on another forum? I have many people there who would love to know how the sierra man himself feels about such a controversial topic. I know it doesn’t seem to important…..but to us we just need to know what the greats behind classics think. I may even ask Al Lowe what he thinks too.(re: I made a lot of Mac and Netscape changes)
Anything specific you want tested?
I use IE with my mac and haven’t had problems (well, except for the ones I’ve reported to you, but those don’t seem to be mac specific).
I can load up Netscape and poke around, but let me know if there are specific things to be looking for.
-emily
(re: re: re: Sierra Classics) I know this might be a touchy subject, and one that probably should not be posted openly in this forum, but could someone email me links to downloading old sierra games? My email is
Link:bonk81@yahoo.com (mailto:bonk81@yahoo.com)
. I’ve missed a few over the years and really want to play them.(re: Computer Sound)
I thought I read the whole top 25 gaming moments list! I completely missed this one! I even complained in the Forums that Serra On-Line and Ken & Roberta williams wearn’t mentioned! But now that it has, here’s another plus! Sierra was the only company mentioned in the “Top 25 Gaming Moments” that WASN’T mentions in the”top 25 gaming msitakes!” 🙂
(re: re: Sierra Classics) I know, of course Sierra has the say. Since they seem to ignore every old fan asking them to sell their old games or release them as freeware…..I don’t know what will happen. I can see their side though. They probably think one day they will make new games in ther series, but every series? When will sierra ever make an Codename: Iceman 2? They shouldn’t tell people “Sorry, we can’t let you have the game for free” and at the same time say “We won’t sell the game anymore”….
That is what’s so interesting about computer games and time, it’s a very controversal topic. No matter what happens, I’ll still be playing the games. I don’t feel bad about having to download some of the ones I missed either. I long for the day sierra realizes that it would not hurt to let the games go.
Well, anyway…..thanks for the quick reply! Hmmm….this site resparked my interest in sierra. I think I’ll go play some Police Quest! 😉(re: Sierra Classics) Thank you for the kind words!
As to abandonware: my opinion is irrelevant. What matters is Sierra’s opinion. Technically, they hold the copyrights to all their products, and any attempt to distribute them is piracy. That said, if there were a market for the products, Sierra would be selling them.
I have heard that there are sites that are distributing the old games. I even found one site that had the old Apple II games, and an emulator, for download! To the extent that Sierra doesn’t object, I think it’s great. Hopefully, they’ll either distribute the old games, or look the other way as they are passed around the internet. I’d hate to see them just “cease to exist”.
-Ken W
(I made a lot of Mac and Netscape changes) Is anyone running a Mac – or, Netscape?
I made a ton of changes this weekend. With a little luck, you should find it works much better.
Let me know
-Ken W(re: re: Computer Sound) The IIGS would actually have had pretty good sound (I think). My recollection is that we wrote our own audio routine for the IIgs that generated wave-based sound.
But, that was a long time ago – and, I’m not sure.
-Ken W(re: Computer Sound) neat!
I played KQ4 on the Apple IIGS… am i right in guessing that the sound cards described in this article were for PCs only? (except i think they were called IBM Compatibles back then!) Or did the Apple version also have better sound than its predecessors? I can’t remember how the game sounded, personally…
🙂 emily(re: Flickering cursors) The cursors flicker because they are not “true” cursors; they are software implemented cursors.
Most of the games, and SCI itself, were developed before Windows was popular (or, even existed). Possibly we could have coded them better, so that they wouldn’t flicker – but, keep in mind that we are talking REALLY slow computers. Lots of decisions were made because of performance, or memory size.
-Ken W(re: Ken And Remakes?) I think the fan games are great!
However, it’s Sierra’s opinion that counts. If they wanted to, they could shut down the fan games. Hopefully they won’t though.
-Ken W(re: re: KING’S QUEST MOVIE) Hello Mr, Mrs. Williams, I am writing to you as a fan of the King’s Quest games. They had a tremendous impact on me over the years and lately i am studying to become a film director in Australia and have wondered about writing a King’s Quest screenplay for a movie that perhaps some day be able to make. I was wondering what you thought about that, is it a good idea, do you object, any thoughts etc. I would be honoured if you relayed your opinions.
Sorry to be late responding…
There is a huge potential market for anything Kings Quest related. Kings Quest targets the same demographic as Harry Potter, and was always Sierra’s top selling product (until Kings Quest 8, which was the only Kings Quest game that Roberta was not responsible for).
That said, I would doubt that Sierra would ever allow you to do a film. I tried for 10 years to buy the film rights to Leisure-Suit Larry, and could never get them.
Good luck!
-Ken W
