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games also seem to be released with several, sometimes very irritating, bugs and that spoils a lot of game fun. They might offer patches later on but then some players might already have put the game away. Making a perfect or good game which is not full of bugs is very rare. It’s the money again, sell it fast then fix it to a normal level.”< Thanks for the nice compliment on SWAT 3. It’s a pretty good game and I am happy I was involved with it. -Rod
(re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: PQ and real police training)
>“Any truth in that Rod? I can image it already, two SWAT fanatics living together, SWAT stuff everywhere and a whole armoury in the basement :p” < That’s a funny question…Tammy and I have been married for the past 13 years. I guess I just take it for granted that most people knew about that. Though Tammy created and produced the first SWAT game and designed the third one, I have to admit that I’m the only enthusiast in this household. >“”BTW- Ken is on the cover of the SWAT 3 boxes (guy in the center).” < Yes, Ken Thatcher, LAPD SWAT is the one in the middle. The other guys are LAPD as well; the one on the right one of the element leaders of 70-David, and the other is Kenny Thatcher Jr. (Ken Thatcher’s Sr. son who is a member of C-team at Metro Division. > “Lots of stories to tell about the SWAT days as I could go on and on….” < Here is a good one….not sure what year it was, or even what PQ/SWAT game we were working on, but we were given the opportunity to go for a “tour” (that’s what they call a shift) with LAPD Air Support. LAPD has the largest police helicopter fleet in the nation and it’s stationed on top of the Piper Technology Building in Downtown LA. We arrived in the late afternoon, meet the various members of Air Support and then were given a tour of the facilities. It’s pretty cool facility that resembles a military type airbase. There is also a somber reminder in their lobby dedicated to those Air Support police officers who died in the line of duty with. Air Support is considered a hazardous mission as choppers do crash and it’s usually fatal when they do. After a run-down of the emergency drills if we crash, we took off around 5:00pm. There are two officers in each chopper; one pilot and one observer. They gave us a fantastic tour over the city, buzzing the beaches, the Hollywood sign, and all the major attractions in the area. They also showed off some of the capabilities of the helicopter as we touched down on a couple of the downtown LA high rises for us including the Bank of America building. As far as excitement, we “orbited” a number of ‘situations’ including casing down girl gang members who robbed a gas station. We actually chased them down and watched as they tossed their gun under a car. Watching from above it’s amazing how much you can see. The patrol cars coming from all around and the girls trying the evade them. After a few hours in the air we landed back at Piper Tech. I was fine (as far as not getting airsick) until I got in my car….every time I tried to drive the car, I felt horrible. I think we ended up spending about a half hour in the car just sitting there. Since that time I’ve been back to Piper Tech twice; one time to shoot the cover of SWAT 1, and then about a year and a half ago when Cyrus Kanga (Art Director), Cade Myers (Associate Producer) and I did some urban climbing with LAPD SWAT, climbing and repelling off the top of the building (this is another good story).
>“How many people left in total and how many are still at Sierra from the SWAT (3/UJ) team? I know about some of them but not all. So many people left or got laid off at Sierra from different departments there is hardly anyone left anymore it seems…( many of my Sierra dev. team members went on to make SOCOM 2 at Zipper interactive)”< Well, most of the key people left in the few months after I left including all of my leads. I believe that there are only about 3 key members of the SWAT dev. team left at Sierra. Two of which were also on my original SWAT 3 team of 26. Cyrus, Mark, Travis and Craig went over to Zipper Interactive to make SOCOM 2, Charles, Jim, and John, and I ended up at Microsoft (I’m at Xbox, Charles is at Windows, John and Jim are at Microsoft Games Studios). After 11 years in games, Tammy retired from software and she is now writing screenplays. >“What did the police departments/ SWAT think of those space helmets in SWAT 3 btw Rod?” < They were fine with it. The idea was inspired from a conversation I had with one of the founding members of LAPD SWAT (the character “Hondo” from the recent SWAT Movie and original TV show is based upon him). His name is Ron McCarthy and he is a real legend within SWAT circles. >“As I said before SWAT 3 seems to be a true Sierra game to me for the reasons mentioned above somewhere but also because in the beginning they offered a lot of support and great FREE downloads to upgrade the first single player version, Close Quarters Battle, with Multiplayer, a lot of free maps, mods and editing tools. The website had a lot of info and was kept up to date. Probably also because in the beginning it was a new game of course but still… now it is pretty much dead.”< Giving away the updates and maps was a good strategy for us. It ended up working well and the SWAT 3 series ended up being one of Sierra’s best titles. It’s really the only successful action title that has ever been developed internally. >“Also some time ago the company did not want to make the 2.2 patch to fix some (serious) bugs, it was the company not the developers. The developers were great and did their best to help and fix it. They looked up some old code where they already fixed some bugs, called old ex developers to see if they knew some more stuff, and interacted nicely with the fans to try and fix it, bugged management to release a patch/fix etc. Of course the game was old and a small patch for a small community (as SWAT was) was not very profitable and would cost (a lot) of money, we knew that. But reading some of Ken’s posts on this website I would believe the old Sierra might have released it. What do you think Ken / Rod?”< Perhaps. The question really wasn’t about development time, it was QA testing time. We would have had to test all versions of the game (including the international versions). This would have ended up costing quite a bit of money. >“They also never shipped the TGOTY version to Europe even though you can still buy SWAT, SWAT 2 and SWAT CQB/ Elite Edition here. I just saw an advertisement paper of a toy store which is offering “SWAT Generations” now, which include the SWAT 1/2/3 EE version but not the TGOTY. The SWAT series must still sell.”< Interesting…I didn’t know that was coming out. I wish they would send me a copy! >“Rod, since you are not working for Sierra anymore could you tell us some more about the reasons why you left and how things were going with SWAT:UJ that you didn’t like? What do you think of the Sierra before (VUG) and the Sierra now, since you experienced both? “< That’s a tough one for me to expound on. I think I have pretty much said everything I have to say on that topic. >“I still have not found my perfect game but SWAT 3 got pretty close, a lot of games seem to lack something or a lot, including good gameplay and have something irritating, not only bugs. Most
***CONTINUED***(re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…) One more comment on this topic (whether or not there was ever a hit adventure game shipped from ANYWHERE, by Sierra, except from Sierra’s headquarters in Oakhurst).
Roberta just corrected me. She says that Shivers was a 100% Brightstar (our education subsidiary in Seattle) innovation, and sold very well. Roberta did the original Shivers game, with Marcia Bales as co-designer.
-Ken W(re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…) Cheryl:
Thank you for the correction! And, good to hear from you! As I suspected, only Oakhurst ever shipped hit adventure games for Sierra. Not sure why.
I’ve just upgraded your account to reflect your ex-employee status. It will give you access to an area of the site that is just for us ex-employees.
I heard you were back in Oakhurst. Hope all is well….
-Ken W(re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…)
Just to refresh your memory Ken, both Dr. Brain and EcoQuest were started at Sierra in Oakhurst. The first EcoQuest was co-designed by Jane Jensen and Gaino Haine as I recall, and Dr. Brain was worked on by Cory Cole. They were both beautifully done. EcoQuest 2 was also done in Oakhurst, designed by Gaino Haine. I was the producer on the wrap-up and shipping of the game. Seems to me there was a Dr. Brain 2 also done in Oakhurst, designed by Jon Bock maybe . . . not sure on that one. -Cheryl
(Woodruff & Torin)
Hey everyone. I’ve been reading a lot of talk about Woodruff and the Schnibble & Torin’s Passage. I actually have the videos that are talked about – the previews of Woodruff & Torin – laying on my hard drive. So I’ve uploaded them to my website in a zip file, around 18.6mb.
The file can be downloaded at:
http://www.nameyourdeals.com/sierravids.zip I’ll probably leave the file up for a little over a week, just b/c I only have 50mb on the server. I also have a similar type video of Phantasmagoria if anyone is interested in that.
Hope this helps.
– “I miss the old Sierra” :`(
(re: re: Ken and Magnetic Scrolls)
Hi Ken,
well, I must admit I was a bit surprised, then I thought about it and realized that you are in the States and that Magnetic Scrolls, being British, made more rumor here actually (I’m in Florence, hence Europe).
They started in the mid 80’s and produced only 7 games, among which (maybe you heard) “the Pawn” and “the Guild of Thieves”, which were text adventures with, not in all rooms, hi-res (for the time) pictures (bitmaps, not line drawing). You were able to deactivate graphics in order to play text only, for the ones who preferred. However, the pictures were nice and added to the atmosphere.They had nice packaging, with Infocom like extras (novella, even a cassette tape for “corruption”).
Best place to look at is:
http://www.if-legends.org/~msmemorial/memorial.htm
You can also download everithing actually, for an interpreter called magnetic (which is good, even if personally I preferred the original program in terms of how the screen and pictures were put together).
If you look in eBay (al least in Europe) you will still see some of the old boxes selling quite well (rarely though, not as often as Sierra)
Actually, I remember liking some of their advs. a lot.
Well, if you will ever try them, let me know if you like them !Giovanni
(re: Ken and Magnetic Scrolls) I’ve never played the Magnetic Scrolls games. Who made them? Are they available for download somewhere?
-Ken W(Ken and Magnetic Scrolls)
Hi Ken,
as you replied to have been a fan of Infocom games too, I was wondering if you appreciated also MS adventures. Personally, I feel they are more discontinuous in quality vs Infocom, but still some of their 7 if I remember well adv., are definitely good. On top, this was probabily the way Infocom should have taken to add graphics to their advs. at a later stage, not disrupting their text only look an feel (plus you could deactivate the pull dowm graphics on MS).
Do you agree with me ?
Thank you,
Giovanni(re: re: re: re: re: re: re: PQ and real police training) > “Hopefully, I’m not wrong on this: but I belive Rod was married to, or living with, or both, Tammy Dargan – who ran the SWAT project.” Any truth in that Rod? I can image it already, two SWAT fanatics living together, SWAT stuff everywhere and a whole armoury in the basement :p > “It’s really sad how they screwed up Sierra. I remember thinking that it was OK for Roberta and I to sell, because Sierra was strong enough to withstand just about anything. One expression I used to use was that “I wanted to build a company that our grandkids could be proud of”. I always wanted to focus Sierra on a 100 year game plan, and do the little things right that would keep us “in the game” for many generations, even when it might mean temporary pain in return for long-term gain. I thought we could weather out periods of time when there might be poor management. Now I know I was wrong. Bad management can bring down a good company with amazing speed.” Did you ever consider to keep the company and have someone else run the day to day operations while you and Roberta took it a bit more easy and maybe just advise? I guess you probably did think of it but I just like to know what made you sell in stead of keeping it. > “BTW- Ken is on the cover of the SWAT 3 boxes (guy in the center).” Ken(neth) Thatcher you mean right? > “Lots of stories to tell about the SWAT days as I could go on and on….” Please share some with us 🙂 > “many of my Sierra dev. team members went on to make SOCOM 2 at Zipper interactive.” How many people left in total and how many are still at Sierra from the SWAT (3/UJ) team? I know about some of them but not all. So many people left or got laid off at Sierra from different departments there is hardly anyone left anymore it seems… What did the police departments/ SWAT think of those space helmets in SWAT 3 btw Rod? As I said before SWAT 3 seems to be a true Sierra game to me for the reasons mentioned above somewhere but also because in the beginning they offered a lot of support and great FREE downloads to upgrade the first single player version, Close Quarters Battle, with Multiplayer, a lot of free maps, mods and editing tools. The website had a lot of info and was kept up to date. Probably also because in the beginning it was a new game of course but still… now it is pretty much dead. Also some time ago the company did not want to make the 2.2 patch to fix some (serious) bugs, it was the company not the developers. The developers were great and did their best to help and fix it. They looked up some old code where they already fixed some bugs, called old ex developers to see if they knew some more stuff, and interacted nicely with the fans to try and fix it, bugged management to release a patch/fix etc. Of course the game was old and a small patch for a small community (as SWAT was) was not very profitable and would cost (a lot) of money, we knew that. But reading some of Ken’s posts on this website I would believe the old Sierra might have released it. What do you think Ken / Rod? They also never shipped the TGOTY version to Europe even though you can still buy SWAT, SWAT 2 and SWAT CQB/ Elite Edition here. I just saw an advertisement paper of a toy store which is offering “SWAT Generations” now, which include the SWAT 1/2/3 EE version but not the TGOTY. The SWAT series must still sell. Rod, since you are not working for Sierra anymore could you tell us some more about the reasons why you left and how things were going with SWAT:UJ that you didn’t like? What do you think of the Sierra before (VUG) and the Sierra now, since you experienced both? Ken, if you ever decide to make a new game or start a new game company there are a lot of (ex) developers from Sierra who were laid off or left (hope most found a job though) so there is plenty of talent out there to recruit. I think the old Sierra way will definitely sell games. It also seems to be a trend that ex developers of large companies start their own game company and make great games, like Infinity Ward with Call of Duty for instance. Also Sierra seems to use more and more external development teams to developer their games. So there is still a large market for good original/ innovating games made by dedicated (small) companies Ken 🙂 Most companies do however follow (the current) trends/themes like the WWII theme and now it’s the Vietnam theme I think. When you have played one of those games and see an other one from an other company you usually think “been there done that already”. I still have not found my perfect game but SWAT 3 got pretty close, a lot of games seem to lack something or a lot, including good gameplay and have something irritating, not only bugs. Most games also seem to be released with several, sometimes very irritating, bugs and that spoils a lot of game fun. They might offer patches later on but then some players might already have put the game away. Making a perfect or good game which is not full of bugs is very rare. It’s the money again, sell it fast then fix it to a normal level. Micha
(re: re: re: re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…) I don’t remember why the Goblins series was renamed to Woodruff and the Schnibble…
The games were developed by Coktel Vision, a subsidiary of ours that was based in France.
Here’s a few comments on Coktel:
Coktel Vision was dominant in education software in Europe. They had a series of products called “ADI” that were curriculum-based educational software. The ADI series had hundreds of individual products each targeting a different grade level and subject matter.
I always wanted to launch the ADI software in the US. We spent years converting the software, and did launch it – and sold almost no copies. In Europe, (or, at least the portions of Europe we targeted) all schools had rigid curriculums. All students learn the same thing at the same time, from the same books. The ADI series was meant to exactly mirror the in-school studies. No such rigidness exists in the US, which made it tougher for us to adapt the products to the US market. Also, my staff didn’t like the project, and grumbled about working on it. I’m not sure we ever gave the project our best effort. I would be curious to see one of the old ADI boxes if someone has one and wants to scan it.
The name Coktel Vision was a strange one. At the time, I thought it must mean something in french, which I now know that it doesn’t. I remember asking Roland, Coktel’s founder, years after we acquired them, where the name came from. His response: “I was having a drink one day, thinking about starting a software company, and voila – I had the company name and the idea.” Why he misspelled Coktel, I do not know.
Many Sierra divisions tried to do Adventure games, but it is harder than it seems. None of the divisions ever shipped a hit. Dynamix tried with Rama and Coktel with Goblins. The closest to success was the Dr. Brain series done by our Brightstar division in Seattle. I loved the Dr. Brain games! Actually, Brightstar did another series that I thought was incredible: EcoQuest.
-Ken W(re: re: re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…)
It’s funny why Sierra decided that the name should change! Ken, any recollection on this?
(re: re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…)
I have the manual. When I get some time, I will scan and upload it. Mine is the US version, 24 pages and is only in English. For now I include a low res scan of the the cover. I also have the Official Hint Book. Since it is a 162 pages long, I will not be scanning it, but here is a scan of the cover.
Woodruff Manual Cover
Woodruff Hintbook Cover(re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…) Whether it carried the story from Goblins 3 or not was fairly irrelevant. People who saw both titles on a shelf together would almost naturally tie the two together!
I do have the manual (just checked, it’s a 30 page dual language format – French & English). Unfortunately if it’s not on the CD, I don’t have it in electronic format 🙁 Maybe one day I’ll buy a scanner! Also included the box was a small leaflet with hints to starting the game.(re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…)
I’ve heard of Torin’s Passage as well, in fact I created a webpage dedicated to it.
And I don’t know about Woodruff being a sequel to Goblins 3. It’s definitely in the same style, but the “true” Goblins sequels had a definite connection to their predecessors (mostly having to do with the king and his son, as well as numerous character references/cameos), but Woodruff is quite different. All of the humanoid protagonists of the Goblins series had pointed ears…and Woodruff’s are rounded. That’s a big enough difference for me.
By the way: I guess my primary question wasn’t clear enough. I wanted to know if anyone had the manual that came with Woodruff and if it would be possible to upload it in some form. There’s no copy protection in the manual or anything similar, I just want to see what it’s like.
Akril
(re: Jones In Fast Lane)
Hell, a lot of people can say that Sierra were stupid for a number of their decisions…. hey ho! I missed Jones at the time but grabbed it from a download site about a year back. It had funky music was about all I could muster! Bizzare to use the SCI engine for this game but it seems to work.
(re: re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…) I purchased Woodruff & The Schnibble of Azimuth when it was released in the UK. To me it was indeed Goblins 4. It has very very similar humour and graphical presentation 😉
Unfortunately it was just as hard as the Goblin’s games and I never actually finished it! One day I’ll load it up and try again 🙂(re: re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…)
I won Woodruff on ebay. It was made Coktel Vision, a French company that Sierra bought. They were also the ones that did the Goblins series. Some have called Woodruff the 4th Goblins, but there is nothing officially that says it is. It has much of the same quirky humor that the 3 Goblins had.
(re: re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…)
I think Corktel made it. (Or is it Coktel?)
How far are you in Torin’s Passage? I thought that was a really great game. It seemed to move a little quickly at the end… but I think the second chapter (the one where you gather the tiles) is a really excellent example of creative, fun gameplay. Be warned though — this game requires a patch, and if you don’t apply it you’ll probably hit a glitch at somepoint that corrupts all your saved games. It’s not a huge deal because you can start at any chapter, but then you don’t have all your points…
Sorry to go off topic, guess I have a lot to say about Torin’s Passage this evening!
-emily
(re: Not a “pure” Sierra game, but…) I’ve heard of it, but never played it. Who made this one?
Woodruff & the Schnibble was in development / promoted / released about the same time as Torin’s Passage, I think. I remember watching the promo movies for this game and Torin’s Passage on the KQ7 CD. At the time, I never got either of them. Now, I got a jewel case only of Torin’s Passage and am enjoying it, but I haven’t seen this one around.(re: re: re: re: re: re: PQ and real police training)
I wish I could recall which police departments used (or looked at) the PQ games. Of the Police Quest series (including SWAT) I believe that SWAT 3 ended up having the largest following with police agencies and SWAT teams. One of the aspects that they found most intriguing was the firearms that we used in the game and the tactics. I think what also attracted them to the game was the genuine level of authenticity that we applied throughout the game. Tam and I spent a lot of time with LAPD SWAT and we learned pretty much everything there is to know about their work (as it would apply to a game). Even my dev. team spent time with LAPD SWAT. I recall on numerous occasions that we took them done to LA for tactics training, urban climbing, etc… We became friends with a number of the senior staff members at LAPD and I still correspond with them frequently.
Chief Gates was involved with SWAT 3, but as Ken mentioned his biggest contribution was to mostly open doors for us. Ken Thatcher (LAPD SWAT aka “the bullfrog’) was the chief consultant and he is the one that really showed me the ropes when it came to LAPD SWAT. BTW- Ken is on the cover of the SWAT 3 boxes (guy in the center).
Lots of stories to tell about the SWAT days as I could go on and on…. I had a great dev. team at Sierra and it’s sad to think it’s all gone now. I’m really happy with the accomplishments that my team and I made for Sierra, and I thank Ken Williams for letting us do our thing. I’m over here at Xbox making some cool stuff and having fun, many of my Sierra dev. team members went on to make SOCOM 2 at Zipper interactive.
-R
(re: Old interview with Ken)
Ken, what are you saying? You were a visionary. 5% of total gaming revenue? Massively Multiplayer, consistent world games are the current fad in 2004! EverQuest, PlanetSide, Star Wars Galaxies, Final Fantasy XI, Earth and Beyond, Dark Age of Camelot, The Sims Online – and soon, World of Warcraft and EverQuest 2 are going to push the boundaries even further.
You were dead on correct when you did this interview. EverQuest, one of the originals in the genre, has survived for over 6 years now on patches and expansion packs! 6 years has got to be some sort of record for longevity in the computer gaming business. These games sell off the shelf for the same amount as games have traditionally sold – $50 – and then a significant percentage of people continue paying monthly fees on top of that. Most people only stick with a game of this sort for a few months before moving on, but a large number also stick with the game for years.
True the games require a bit more infastructure, but when you have more than 400,000 active subscribers worldwide – which is the case with EverQuest as of August 2003, six years and five expansion packs after its initial release – and each member pays $12.95 a month – then you are bringing in over five million dollars of revenue every month just on that game. That is in addition to the 400,000 or more cardboard boxes that were initially sold for $50 each, bringing in the publisher approximately $15-$20 per box (for argument sake). Of course, the profit may not be as impressive once you consider development costs, advertising, etc etc, but in terms of sheer revenue… EverQuest is not unique in those numbers either. Star Wars Galaxies also boasts over 400,000 active subscribers, and Dark Age of Camelot recently passed the 200,000 mark. There is clearly consistent, steady profit to be made on these games, and the market is reflecting that fact.
Also, there is hardly a hit game anymore that doesn’t consist of some sort of multiplayer option. Some of my current favorites include Warcraft 3, Command and Conquer Generals, and Unreal Tournament 2003. Being a fan of storyline and having grown up on single player games, I still love the single player options. But the number of hours I spend playing these games multiplayer so vastly dwarfs the hours I’ve spent playing the single player that I hardly consider them “single player games” at all.
Ken, even your OWN success story, Half-Life, has spawned the biggest fan-produced, 100% multiplayer mod in history – Counter Strike. People hardly play Half-Life as a single player game anymore, but Counter Strike is likely the most popular game played at LAN Gaming Centers across the U.S. (lacking figures I can’t prove this – but I know it is the most popular game at MY Internet Cafe, and brings us the most revenue).
It is rare today to hear of a popular single player game. There are exceptions, like Max Payne, or the yet-to-be-released Doom 3. Multiplayer games are simply more engrossing, more challenging, and more dynamic. Its like the difference between playing Solitaire and Poker (if you like card games).
Anyway, I just was a little shocked to hear you call yourself wrong when you have clearly been vindicated more than anyone could have imagined at the time.
Bottom line, people PREFER multiplayer games and multiplayer games sell better than purely single player games. The Internet Age has turned the computer into a social gateway for many previously isolated geeks – and its more fun to mix social interaction into the mix then to sit in a dark room by yourself. That’s why I always played Sierra adventure games with a friend or two.
– Chris
(re: re: re: manhunter issue)
NAGI is very easy to use. Just move all of your AGI game folders into the NAGI folder and start NAGI. You will then be given a menu of all of your AGI games. You just select which game you want to play and it will start.
(re: re: manhunter issue)
i have dosbox, but that’s what i was talking about when i said “something simple” because i spent like an hour trying to get it to work before i just threw my hands up in the air and gave up. so anyway, last night i plodded through the readme again and learned that you can just drag and drop the executable file onto the dosbox.exe and it’ll run that way. AND IT WORKS!!! i’m going to look into the nagi program though, cuz maybe it’s easier. thanks for the help though, i really didn’t think anyone else would be out there.
