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(re: re: re: re: re: Building Old Computers For Sierra Gaming)
Westwood had the same policy. In fact, personal games were not to be loaded on company machines (though a few of us testers managed to bend the rule a little bit during lunch breaks so we could get some Counterstrike in). The stuff in the library was for personal entertainment and definitely not for the workplace.
The higher ups at Westwood felt the same way you did, Ken. That makes what ended up happening that much more puzzling. After the release of Tiberian Sun, the Westwood brand just sort of fizzled off into mediocrity (which ultimately led to the closure).
-David Reese
lordcorenair@netscape.net(re: re: re: re: Building Old Computers For Sierra Gaming)
Ah, the Kyrandia games. Those were interesting – I would have loved to see Sierra get involved in those games. But, as you said, Sierra and Westwood were competitors at the time. Much like Westwood and Blizzard were for quite some time in the RTS genre.
-David Reese
lordcorenair@netscape.net(re: re: re: re: re: RE: You fell off KENNY BOY!! YOU FELL OFF!!!) I’m not completely sold on the idea of RPGs being the same as adventure games. I love both, but I feel like RPGs have less interaction in a way. They’re usually very straightforward, go get this item, then fight this monster. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Final Fantasy games and the new Mario & Luigi RPG is fantastic.
I think of adventure games as requiring more thought than RPGs though. I’m working my way through the 2 most recent Monkey Island games now (Escape and Curse). But there’s definitely a market for adventure games now and I think publishers are realizing it.(re: re: Take The Plunge…)
This is just opinion of course, but,
Ken,
I think nostalgia drives gaming more than you might give it credit for. What Sierra gamers want is not rehashes or replicas of the Sierra games from the 80’s, but as you said, pioneering new kinds of games. But people remember who made those games, who the characters were in those games, and where those games took place.
Think of the Final Fantasy games. They are working on #12 now. They are hugely successful worldwide, and they keep evolving with the technology. Just like REAL Sierra games did. I remember when our family bought a “Multimedia” PC, just so we could play King’s Quest V on CD… That was a $1500+ investment just to play 1 game! Such as I bought a new video card so I could play Final Fantasy XI on my computer. But I wouldn’t say wanting a new Final Fantasy game because I loved the older ones (I played since #1) is nostalgia. Final Fantasy is just a name, but people know they are in for a treat when they play one.
That’s the way the games Sierra used to make made me feel. I would buy whatever RAM, Disk Drive, whatever I needed to play KING’S QUEST. And boy it usually needed it!
I think that’s why so many people want SIERRA to come back. Not so we can have games using the SCI engine, but NEW games, using NEW technology, but still…SIERRA games. Not “VU Games, powered by Ken Williams” (no offense, sir)
We want a NEW King’s Quest, made by Roberta and you, and NEW Space Quest, made by Scott and Mark… A NEW Quest for Glory by Lori and Corey. But not games that just repeat history… Like you said, they have to be pioneering! But that can work and still wear the King’s Quest and Sierra brand. I’ll buy a faster computer to play it! But I wouldn’t buy a faster computer to play “Grand Racer 5000” or “Football 2000” (joke names 🙂
It always just felt like the old Sierra became some old dog that was taken out back and shot… I never got a “Farewell” from King Graham, or a “Goodbye” from Roger Wilco. Just ……. nothing. Then Sierra became just a logo, and now, it can’t do much good at that.
Games like Metroid, Final Fantasy, etc, are all games that one could be “nostalgic” about, simply because many have played the old games. But they want the new ones so they can see the characters and the world they started grow both in story and in graphics. It would seem for King’s Quest and all the other games your company started, that they just died. No endings. Just a void.
It is good to hear that you are somewhat interested in the industry again, but I find it very very hard to get excited about you working for VU games. Sierra was yours! You sold it and they killed it! It just doesn’t sound right.
Please do not take me as trying to tell you what’s right or wrong or how you should order your life Ken. These are just my opinions and should be taken lightly as always.
Please don’t blame me for wanting what many want, not out of nostalgic thought’s, but out of sadness for what we once had, that suffered such a horrible fate.
I of course wish you and Roberta good luck and good wishes on whatever you may attempt!
Yours,
RyanI’m with Paul Lilly on this one 🙂
(re: Future of Adventures ?) I just played the demo of Syberia 2, looking to pick up the original now. There definitely seems to have been a bit of a resurgence in adventure games lately.
Out of Order is a terrific freeware adventure. Runaway looks great (need to pick it up). You’ve got the Nancy Drew, Sherlock Holmes, and Law & Order games. I really think people are starting to realize that walking around shooting things gets old after a while.(re: 25 Aniversery) Ideally they’d release the LSL: Ultimate Pleasure Pack again so that I wouldn’t have to spend $200 on it.
It would be really nice if they did release complete sets of all the major series though.(re: re: re: re: Building Old Computers For Sierra Gaming) Ken, if you’re reading, did Sierra have a gigantic library like Westwood? Or Nintendo. I heard the Big N has every arcade machine ever legally made for the employees to play.
We did try to assemble a library of games, and computer magazines, a couple of times — but, overall, we really weren’t very organized in this area.
There were a few reasons, the largest of which was that the company was scattered across 15 or so locations. Dynamix in Oregon, Sierra and Brightstar in Seattle, Papyrus in Boston, Headgate in Utah, Berkley in San Francisco, The other Sierra in central California, Coktel in Paris, Impressions in another part of Boston, etc etc. There really wasn’t a place for a library.
Also: I really didn’t support things like playing games at work. I certainly supported playing games after work, but had a different opinion about the workplace. I always think work means work. If you have time for playing games at work, then somehow you missed the fact that competitors are out to kill you. As VU Games seems to have discovered, it is TOUGH to make money selling software. We succeeded only because we worked harder, worked more hours, and worked smarter, than our competitors. Microsoft and Electronic Arts are tough companies to beat. Taking market share from them had nothing to do with playing games…
-Ken W(re: re: re: Building Old Computers For Sierra Gaming)
Only issue I have is constantly misplacing crap. Some computers are dissasembled all over the place 😀 like the tandy’s becasue i always *MORE* power per unit.
actually, since i’ve scrapped lots of crap, i’m working on small home network using OSs from Red Hat and SuSE Linux (don’t trust any other versions) to WinXPHome and WinXPPRo (include Mac 9.2.2 and Mac Panther when the time’s right). With PC, it’s just PowerLeap that damned computer to a K6-3/550, but with Apple PCs, money is the concern. Plus the nasty rumor the Virtual PC doesn’t run on Mac G5 (load of crap, it’s Panther that doesn’t run it *well*)
if invited to my house, you’d only see, right now, just the Compaq and Mac in the living room, a GameCube, a broken PS2 (sniff sniff sob sob) and two or three PCs I’m building.
I’ve been to Westwood in the old Arville Office when I was friends with Rick Coco Gush, and a few other guys who have went into the ether. Brett was very nice when Virgin/Viacom owned the company, but, as in Sierra gets bought by VU Games, EA chopped Westwood into so many pieces, and Brett because a jerk! (To me, anyways.) If I recall, in the early ’90s, Westwood and Sierra were in a pissing contest for the better product. Seems to me (just me) that the games were one par to one another, thought Westwood released far more less than Sierra did. I think it would’ve been groovy if Sierra did buy Westwood. Imagine Legend of Kyrandia being installed in C:\SIERRA\KYRANDIA and using Sierra installation programs and such.
When the company moved to Summerlin, I didn’t visit at all, as I hate Summerlin and the horrible wackos that in produced to crowd Vegas streets. I’m sorry, but i’m not going to drive for more than 20 minutes to get somewhere, yet the Scummerlins are driving an hour or more, causing all of our traffic jams! GRR!!
Plus my buddy, Mr. Lands of Lore (and Kyrandia) Rick left in 1998 or so, and I just stopped supporting Westwood after that, exept for NOX. NOX is cool, NOX is fun. NOX doesn’t have a serial number anymore.
However, Ken, if you’re reading, did Sierra have a gigantic library like Westwood? Or Nintendo. I heard the Big N has every arcade machine ever legally made for the employees to play.
Well,
(re: 25 Aniversery) What is Sierra doing for there 25 Aniversery?
To be honest, I’m not sure there is a Sierra anymore. It has been a while since I’ve heard ANYONE say “I work for Sierra.” Sad…. I think Sierra today is nothing more than a brandname used by VU Games for some of their products. Hopefully I’m wrong in this, but if there really were a Sierra, wouldn’t you expect that at least one message would have been posted here by some Sierra employee?
-Ken W(re: Take The Plunge…) My comments are embedded within your message…
-Ken W
Hey Ken,
I read that you and Roberta have recently shown renewed interest in getting back into gaming. As far as your meeting with Sierra this April, is there a compelling reason why you would lean away from starting your own company? Obviously, there’s the plus side of the resources in teaming with Sierra again, but at what cost when it comes to restrictions and who can be brought on board?
Roberta and I have different motivations.
Roberta is clearly interested in doing a game again, and is just now starting the long process towards making a game. She’s at least six months to a year from knowing what the game will be, so she considers it premature to be thinking about how it would be published or developed.
I would like to get involved with Sierra, because it bothers me that they aren’t #1, and it bothers me that the industry seems to be caught in a rut. I believe I can make more of a difference, on behalf of both the industry and Sierra, by working with the senior management at VU Games (the parent of Sierra) rather than by working on any one game.
As you know, Al has shown an interest in working on another Leisure Suit Larry game, but that appears to have gone by the wayside. What about starting a company and getting him involved in some way, shape, or form? I realize the rights to the characters we’re familiar with would be absent, but don’t think for a second that we have forgotten the real names behind those characters.
If I ever do anything again, I would definitely hope to get Al involved! I’m constantly giving Al ideas (whether he wants them or not) on how he can get going on a game again.
You and Roberta were doing adventure games back when they were done right. Between Sierra and LucasArts, I spent a lot of time in other worlds living and breathing stories. With the demise of the Sierra of old and with LucasArts pushing the genre into an FPS style of character control (starting with Grim Fandango), there’s very little options for adventure gamers today. Yes, there’s The Longest Journey and just a few others, but by and large the true adventure games are not to be found. I never bought that gamers changed or that the genre died. At best, I would say the genre has fallen into a deep sleep, a hibernation until one of the pioneers comes back and resurrects the true spirit of what adventure gaming was all about. The feel, style, control, immersion, and storytelling are all areas that have not been adequately recaptured since the 90s.
I’m not too fond of nostalgia. We did great things not because the things we did were great, but because they were great at the time. Sierra’s games don’t look as good today, as they looked when they were released. We were pioneering new kinds of games, new kinds of content, new technologies, new user interfaces, etc. If I were to do something today, I would want to do the same. Certainly, the big picture would be “give the player a way to role play in an alternate universe, and give them 30 to ??? hours of intense entertainment” but I would layer onto this the concept of “do it in a way that surprises the player – give the player something they have NEVER seen before”. This is somewhat inconsistent with saying “how do I bring back the adventure games of the 80’s?”
For what it’s worth, let me encourage you and Roberta to be those returning pioneers. Let me encourage you to be the ones to bring back adventure gaming to the gamers who were right there with you to begin with. Let me encourage you to be the ones to bring adventure gaming to a brand new audience that have never known what it’s like to be fully immersed in a game, lost in another world. Let me encourage you to take the gaming industry by storm…again. Who am *I* to encourage this? I am Paul Lilly, I’m an adventure gamer from days past, I’m a hopeful fan that the genre will awaken by those who know what it is, and I am one of many who await the return of one of the pioneers. As this letter comes from but one person, it represents many, many more.Roberta is working hard on another game. Although, I don’t want to mislead anyone. She’d only do a game if she can think of something innovative to do. That means she will be spending the next six months doing intensive research, and if she thinks of something that she thinks can be great, she will go the next step. If not, she won’t.
(re: re: Building Old Computers For Sierra Gaming)
My god! You have quite an impressive collection there. By any chance, did you ever get some of your friends from Westwood to give you a tour of the facility? They had a library room behind the render-farm that was just FULL of computer games, console games, DVD’s, and books. I never got around to asking, but I think that little library had just about every game from 1993 on that was worth playing (and more than a few clunkers too).
To be perfectly honest, I don’t know what I mourn for more…
1) Westwood being shut down
2) Being laid off during corporate restructuring
3) Never seeing that library again.I’d say it’s pretty evenly matched. I’m the first to admit I’m a computer geek and this little room was like my BEST friend for the year or so I was at Westwood. <
> Hey Ken – did Sierra ever have anything like this (a library of software/games/movies/books that employees could check out)?
-David Reese
lordcorenair@netscape.net(re: re: re: re: Take The Plunge…)
I’m still in good ole Vegas. I sent ya quick email per your request. 😉
-David Reese
lordcorenair@netscape.net(re: re: Take The Plunge…)
hah – no worries man. No offense taken. 😉
You are indeed correct – a majority of the people at Westwood were very arrogant in terms of what they did and their contributions to a project. Inter-office politics also went practically un-checked and cost many people promotions and/or raises. I was offered a design position for Earth and Beyond while I was testing it, but couldn’t get the position because the Manager of QA (Brett Sperry) wouldn’t ok the transfer for one reason or the other (I assume it’s because I didn’t do enough sucking up).
But that’s in the past now. I’m currently working on designing my own game while working at a Burger King AND I’m getting ready to go back to college. I’d love to get back into the game industry, but it seems Westwood was the only player in town and with them gone, my hopes of getting another job in the industry is dashed (unless I move and I don’t want to do that right now).
(re: re: Take The Plunge…) I want to point out that making a new company, with new brands from the sierra developers, would be truely awesome. Of course, having King’s Quest, Quest for Glory, and all the others continue under you would be great for those of us who played those games, but the fact is that new games with the same quality would not only be great, but would sell well to the newbies too, and would breath some life into the adventure game genre.
And know that, either way, gimme about four more years and you’d have a programmer more than willing to help! 😀(re: re: Sierra to get new owner)
I agre with you 100%. Sierra shouild be sold to some good owners that will return Sierra to the good days, and rehire some old employes.
(re: re: Love for Police Quest)
Hi! I would love to read your thesis! 🙂
cheers!
Javier(re: re: re: re: So what did you like more?)
It’s like all industries:
Movies used to be in the theaters only, then came video, and event diminished. Theaters have fought back with better sound and picture quality, but it’ll never be like in the ’50s and ’60s.
Music was fun to collect on LPs and such. When you heard a song on the radio, it was something spectacular. Today, it’s passe, and music piracy is rampant everywhere. Can’t do much about this, it’s just the way it has gone. I still look for stuff from modern musicians on LPs, usually at the Virgin Megastore inside Caesar’s Palace.
Books are same. There’s the large magazines, now all are about the size of comic book, and then there’s hardcover to paperback. However, I prefer paperback in this case. Easier to carry around. Comics are way better today, so this rule doesn’t apply to comics at all.
Lastly are video/PC games. The big boxes of the late ’80s and early ’90s made the game seem like an event. Indeed, some games were, like Ultima 7 and KQ5. The big boxes added to the mystique of the event. Seeing these “new” games playing on the hardware was amazing. Then going on a journey and seeing all the events in the game, and getting to the end and such. Amazing. Video games, under Nintendo, had a mystique because of the oversized carts, but that’s about it. CD games looked high-tech, but early systems like LaserActive, CD-i, and Sega CD sure didn’t add to any mystique. Nothing on these systems were an event, either. Working Designs/Game Arts tried, but the games are passe.
(re: re: Original King’s Quest (mainly to Orat, vintage-sierra.com))
I thought, myself that the LAPD manual had something to do with copy protection, but it just didn’t. However, PQ4 was such a power hog that only my 486 and a neighbors Pentium (with no sound card) was able to play it. Everybody else either didn’t have the RAM, video, hard disk space, right format, or processor.
Or maybe the battle between copy protection vs. pirates just didn’t matter anymore if the profit was made, and the pirates would either crack or reproduce the copy protection anyways. This may be the actual reason.
Or the product was rushed. I do notice some scenes in InterAction previews of PQ4 (like a scene in a helicopter and another city scape) aren’t anywhere in the game at all.
(re: Take The Plunge…)
Nobody misses anything until it’s gone.
That’s so true for adventure gaming. Though I contend that it’s gone in the old form, I believe it’s alive, but not too well. I wish I could name five per console, but I can’t even do that. I’d have to combine that list, and I already did that.
However, Mr. Lilly is very right about what’s going on. Nobody at the big corps has an idea about gaming, since their first PC was either a Pentium or PowerPC, and their first console was either PS1 or N64. They simple can’t know what they’re supposed to create.
EA does, though. I saw them take a chance with Alice a few years back, and few other games I can’t remember currently, but will go to game store and take a look. Alice is what really stands out, as do The Sims, which plays like a Make Your Own Adventure or Torture You Own Neighbors. Whichever. But, overall, EA would be the company to go to. It’s all high quality and a good price over there, though some games such as Pirates and few others are a little below par.
Sometimes, I wish I had majored in Computer Science, then I’d be a programmer. But that’s the problem with gaming today. Too many programmers making games for programmers. Slugglish sales, blame piracy. Same old at most companies. I think programmers would get more satisfaction from making an artistic masterpiece (Alice, Myst 3), but are, instead, complaining about getting only $65,000 a year with benefits, and working very easy hours compared to my restraunts. No offense to that one guy from Westwood, but, living in Vegas, I knew many past and present Westwood guys more so than Sierra people. Most were as I desribed programmers above thoughout. I find that damn tragic.
If we can get designers in the style of Al Lowe, Roberta, and even Mr. Goofy Scott Murphy, then I think games would be excellent, because the story will be there first, then the game evolve around it. That’s the problem with online games like EverQuest: no story, just fighting. Big whoop. I guess the majority of people who play these must not know what a goal is, and must still live with their parents. I’m guessing, but that was my big impression when I played these games online.
(re: Put your topic here)
Politics CONTROLS every aspect of the MEDIA today. Trace the real owners of VU Games, and you’ll discover that they’re pro-Globalist, anti-Americans bent on destryoing anything American, yet still taking most of our dollars.
Also, whenever Liberals touch anything in this country, within a year or two it slants one-way, refuses to acknowledge any other opinion, or even the right that opinions exist!
You consider that both Apple and Microsoft are owned by ego-maniacal Conservatives such as Gates and Jobs, and you see the innovation that goes into their products. Same was true for old Westwood, Sierra, and such. I’m not talking crazy religious Right-Wing wackos who shove the Bible in a persons face, but just people who want to deliver a quality product and an affordable price. Hence the true definition of Conservative.
If you don’t want up to this fact, then you’re asleep at the wheel and should get off the road, take a breath, and decided if you want to continue down the road or up the road. Take your pick, it’s you choice.
But Liberals have invaded video/PC games, and have crashed it down to only a few genres in the name of lower-quality/higher prices. VU Games, Inforgrames Atari, and THQ are the biggest Liberal companies in gaming today, and are very paranoid about people stepping and in and telling them that, face it, their games suck most of the time and don’t sell, yet they complain and blame in on piracy over and over again.
By the way, why not have on discussion on this site with a political view-point and opinions? If Ken objects, and he runs the site, then it’ll be stopped. If he salutorily neglects said discussion, then let it go.
(Put your topic here) “Since both magazines are owned by Liberals, you can draw your own conclusions as to why they even write what they write.”
Let’s try and keep politics out of this please.
(re: re: re: So what did you like more?)
I’m with you guys – I far preferred the “good ole days” of game packaging. Anyone remember the box for CD version of Gabriel Knight? Everything about that game popped out at you and the box designers came up with a unique box that “popped” when looked at. To this day on my shelf, it is the one game that people notice when they look at it. It demands attention.
Anyway, as for the smaller boxes, we can thank Walmart for that. When I was working at Westwood, I had a conversation with one of the guys about box art for a game (I think it was Yuri’s Revenge, but I’m not sure now). Anyway, he said that smaller boxes were a requirement if we (the game developer) wanted Walmart to sell the game. Apparently the higher-ups at Walmart got fed up with the fact that they only had so much shelf-space for computer games and they couldn’t carry a big enough selection to compete with video-game retailers because the boxes for the games took up too much space.
So, that said, they (Walmart) issued a statement to the publishers saying they would only sell games that were more compact in shape and size. From what I understand, Walmart is one of EA’s bigger distributer/retailer so they obliged and started shipping games in smaller boxes/cases. And as we all know, when EA does something, odds are VERY good everyone else will follow (whether because they want to sell games through Walmart or because they want to follow the pack.) Since games were being packed in smaller boxes, there was no need to mass produce the “big boxes”.
And the rest is history….
-David Reese
lordcorenair@netscape.net
