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Q from Brandon Klassen: What is the Open Discussion thead?
A from Ken Williams: Just send an email tosierragamers@talkspot.com , and your email will immediately be forwarded to hundreds of other registered members of this website who have chosen under “System / My Account” to receive these emails. Your email will also be posted into the Open Discussion thread. Discuss anything you like, as long as you follow three simple rules: 1) Don’t spam, 2) Don’t use adult language, and 3) Don’t be boring.
PLEASE NOTE: You MUST include the following text somewhere in the SUBJECT LINE of any emails you send to this email address: “***password***”. It does not matter where the ***password*** text appears within the subject line of your email, but if it is not there the email will not be forwarded to the list. This was done to prevent spammers and autoresponders sending to the list.
Enjoy!
– Ken WQ from Trixie: I’m already a member of the Sierra On-Line message board and I already receive e-mail with messages every day from the board. Is this a new thing that you’re doing?
A from Ken Williams: It’s nothing new – it’s just an alternate way for people to interact with, and participate in, the website. You can now post messages on the website through email. It’s not clear to me why anyone would ever want to do that – but, it is something that other “group-oriented” type websites, such as MSN Groups and Yahoo Groups offer. So, I added it for competitive reasons.
My belief is that there are people who will be willing to participate in discussions if they can do so through email, who would never ordinarily post a message on a message board. It’s less intimidating.
Feel free to take advantage of the email-based message board capability, or just ignore it – and, everything will work the same way it used to.
Q from Anonymous: Please unsubscribe me from this one. It’s very close to spamming to be honest.
A from Ken Williams: I am not a spammer. I do not like spammers. I don’t even like people who know people who are spammers… Please read the standard disclaimer that goes out on each email… That said, there are two ways to stop receiving emails from the sierragamers.com website:
1) Choose the “My Account” menu, from under the System menu – and, uncheck the box “Permit registered visitors to this site to send me email” and then click the “Make Changes” button
2) Send an email with nothing but the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT LINE, tosierragamers@talkspot.com
Another update for you all. The homepage has been revised. Ken’s welcome message is now a sub-page of home, but at the top of the home-page list so as to be easily prominent. I also really wanted the Sierra logo to be on this site, so there it is.
The museum is a place where you can post scans of boxes, manuals, or any other cool stuff you have related to Sierra and their games. There are also some major projects happening, such as an archive of InterAction magazines. When these major projects are completed, you’ll definitely hear from us. In the meantime, have fun and post cool stuff! Eventually, “The Sierra Archives” website will be back as a part of SierraGamers.com, and anything posted here will be incorporated into that website.
“If you read my letter in the “About this site” section you will know that one goal of this site is to capture my (and your) recollections of the pivotal events in the birth of the computer industry.
I have lots of memories of different things that happened over the 20 or so years I was part of the industry. Some of my memories are interesting, most aren’t. Some that aren’t will be interesting 100 years from now, some won’t. Rather than spending my time agonizing over what people want to read, and what they don’t, I’m just going to post stuff here as I recall it.
If you think it is boring, I encourage you not to read it. If you find it interesting, read more of it. If you find it missing, that’s because I haven’t written it yet. Hopefully, that will change over the days/weeks/years that follow. Check back here from time to time. I’ve been too busy writing code to write anything more interesting. Maybe that will change soon. We’ll see…
-Ken W”
A message from Ken Williams about fan fiction:
“Have you written a story using the characters from one of Sierra’s games? If so, share it with us! All contributions are welcome!
That said, I do not have the authority to grant anyone the right to create anything using Sierra’s trademarks. Should Sierra ever complain, then this section will have to be removed.
Assuming no one is trying to profit from Sierra’s trademarks (make money off their fiction) – I can’t imagine that they would object. So, HAVE FUN!
-Ken Williams”
There was going to be a MMOAG (Massive Multiplayer Online Adventure Game) named Uru Live. Unfortunetly They did not get enough subscribers in the prologe phase and the idea got scrapped. What I DO think however is that the online part of the game never got launched due to the phisics engine it used (Harvoc). Realistic and laggy.
Quote:
“… (by Ken Williams) (re: re: re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game) I haven’t commented on this topic, only because I’m still sidetracked. I’m on a boat in the middle of nowhere — with a rotten internet connection.Actually — I really don’t have much of an opinion. I doubt that anyone will get sued. But, I also doubt that a fan game can ever make money, and there is a side of me that is still capitalistic. I have trouble taking anything seriously that doesn’t have as a goal to make money. My problem with fan games is that they take LOTS of work, but the ultimate marketability of the product is handicapped — so, either the game never finishes, or, when it is done, its ultimate distribution is limited (by the fact it can’t attract a first-tier publisher).
In short — I have no problem with fan games — but, I would prefer to see people that work hard and do great things receive compensation that reflects the value of their efforts. This isn’t possible with a fan game.
-Ken W …”
Surely you feel more than just ”okay” with it, I mean these are Fans from over 20 years ago that still have that eternal flame, since Sierra or any other company want to make games like they were its up to us Fans.
Does this mean that you could make a fan game and make it so people have to buy it?
Peace n’ Love,
-RobinPitty you didnt make it Ken, It was great talking to AL Lowe and Josh Mandel. These are the things I dream to do when I was a kid. 🙂
Robin Kleeman! You’re the guy who worked on Kings Quest 7 I think. You’re right its impossible to replicate the good ol days when game making was not so competitive. 🙁
Oh well, thats life. 😉
Just a bit on the copyright laws:
“Multipurpose devices, such as a general computer or a CD-ROM drive, are not covered by the AHRA. This means that they are not required to pay royalties or incorporate SCMS protections. It also means, however, that neither manufacturers of the devices, nor the consumers who use them, receive immunity from suit for copyright infringement.”
Straight from the copyright laws section. In short, any non-computer related item must have built in criteria to prevent copying from a copy. Any other item, such as a pc cd-r doesn’t. But if a cd is copied using a pc, then not only is the consumer liable, but so is the manufacturer of the device which did the copying. IE. If they want to limit illegal copying, all they need to do is start going to the true source, the devices they sell cheap enough to make copying valid, and make those devices unable to copy more than the original, as any other commerical copying device is required to be. In a very abstract sense, it could be deemed that not only the cd-r is responsible, but the entire computer system as well as the drives copied from and to are equally liable for any copying performed if it is found to be illegal, and are able to be held accountable in a court of law. (It specifically states computers or devices).
The moral? If you are illegally copying stuff (Which I don’t, so please don’t read more into it than is meant) and are arrested, you can take (compaq, hp, so on, so forth for your computer), amd/intel (processor for the computer), sony/plextor (or whatever drives you have) all to court as part of the settlement cost. So the final moral? The law should be addendumed to remove the capability of generating “said illegal copies” from pc’s as well as from all those other fun devices. Although I agree that there should be “free replacements” for defective material after such. Back in the c64 days, I copied everything and played off the copies, disks just didn’t last long enough. Copy dies (not uncommon) make another copy and continue, keeping the orignal stored savely away.
PS: I wonder if I am violating copyright infringement by copying this from the copyright laws page?
I think the credit has to go to Greg Steffen – a designer that was with Sierra back in the early days.
For those who are interested, there’s been a GK1 musical soundtrack CD released at my website, Sierra Music Central- http://smc.sq7.org .
If you like GK1 music, you’ll surely enjoy this digital CD.
Sorry to cut it short, but I’ve a plane to catch- and not to Germany, either.
– Alistair
Johann:
I think we can all pretty much forget about Duke Nukem Forever. The demos may have looked impressive at the time, but the rest of the industry has been there and done that a dozen times over. Half-Life 2 has the most impressive engine I’ve ever seen. The game was technically superior but IMHO it was just a fun tech demo. What will be really impressive are the games that will come out running on its engine.
I forgot to mention one other thing about Steam: Accounts or games within accounts are _NOT_ transferrable. That means if I’m done with HL2 and I want to sell it, I can forget it. So much for the right of first sale.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine) Isn’t it interesting how content providers only follow copyright laws when it’s convenient for them? That leads us to the subject of piracy.
I’m not completely sure piracy has everything to do with ethics. As everyone knows, lately it has been more rampant than ever because broadband is widely avalable. Before, casual piracy was kept mostly in check by the lack of a distribution system that anyone could use. But now, with broadband and p2p programs everywhere, that has changed. The problem now is that content providers are refusing to change with the times, and instead of adopting new and innovative ways to get payment for their creations, they attempt to change the laws and criminalize casual piracy to the point where actual prison time is involved while clinging to the old ways. There is an old Chinese saying that goes “The more laws and regulations there are, the more thieves and robbers there will be.”
The reality is that people are no longer interested in paying $20 for an audio CD with 14 fluff songs and the one good one they want to hear. Instead they hit Kazaa, or what have you. They are not interested in buying a $50 game that sucks or can’t even play and then having the software vendor refuse to refund their money because of the practically universal open-box policies they have. They are tired of being told they are not allowed to make backups, that they are not allowed to play their music or DVDs off of a duplicate in order to protect their originals. Jack Valenti, the head of the MPAA, insists that when you buy media you get a license to the content and are not buying the media itself. However, in the same breath he also says that if the media is damaged or destroyed you have to buy a new copy. Software is no different. Read your EULA sometime. It says the same thing, but have you ever tried to get replacement media when your originals have been damaged? Software companies are exactly the same way, and it perfectly illustates the duplicity of content providers.
The end of the story is that the only people nowadays who have the control granted to them under US copyright law over media they have legitimatly purchased are those who the industry considers “pirates”, or violators of the DMCA.
In light of all of this, the reason casual piracy exists the way it does today goes far beyond simple ethics:
1) It’s more convenient than buying the product legitimately
2) Content is bundled with other things end users don’t wish to pay for (audio CDs)
3) An act of rebellion against a power grab by content providers
4) Seeking replacement of damaged originals
5) Content is overpricedIMHO, Combating piracy can be done in the following ways
1) Set reasonable prices for content
2) If content is damaged or destroyed, allow easy and hassle-free replacement
3) Allow the user to make backups
4) Ensure content will continue to be accessible in the event provider goes out of business
5) Allow content to be transferrable.Obviously, in order to allow these things, and in fairness to the content providers, a form of DRM would have to be implemented, but not the sort that would allow the provider to arbitrarily yank your access from the content you paid for, as is possible with Steam. Put simply, a balance must be struck between the interests of the end user and those of the content provider. I think Apple’s iTunes service is a step in the right direction. It’s not perfect, of course, but with time it will be far more acceptable than current methods of content distribition.
“And now 3DRealms, the time is right, release Duke Nukem Forever!”
i wish they finally would too, but sadly i am one of the non-believers that thinks DNF is never going to happen, and if by some chance it does, how could it even come close to living up to what people expect of it. almost a decade now of developement time? i think that shows right there that 3d realms doesnt have much respect for the fans at all. its kind of sad too, because if it does get released, it will sell, and it will give 3d realms the idea that a new duke pc game per decade is ok, and its not. could you imagine waiting that long for a sierra sequel back when sierra was owned by ken? i know we are all waiting for new ones now :). im not trying to start a duke war or anything, i was just so supprised to see anyone mention DNF. its been so long since i had thought about it.
i totally agree with you about piracy and a lack of ethics. ethics seem to be something that is quickly fading away in todays society. im only 25 years old and i can already complain about the younger peoples ethical problems, thats pretty sad. the internet has brought piracy to such an acceptable status for so many people. i wonder if people sit back and think of the time and energy it takes developers and musicians to get new product out to the people. or is it more of an impulse? do they just see the link for a free song or program and say “wow, its free” and click it without thinking it through? piracy bother me so much. i think i am the only person i know who actually convinced his parents to BUY the new versions of DOS back in the day instead of just copying them. and the thought of copying sierra games was insane since you would miss out on the really cool packaging and extras. sorry for babbling about this, it is just one of things that annoy me the most.
i am also one who almost always waits until software is bargain priced to play it. the only pc game i have purchased full priced in the last 2 years was the new remake of Sid Meyers Pirates! and only because i already knew it would be a great game.
as for half life 2, i dont like what i hear, so i wont even get it later on when its cheap. im glad that you all have been discussing it, because i was thinking of purchasing it. i had no idea the downloadable copy is full price, that is insane. it should be at least 39.99, if not 29.99. the game industry has become just another business to make money. there are only a few people in it now that care about the gamers. thats too bad.
Great post, Chris!
What I find most confounding is how in the world Valve figured their system of forced registration would deter piracy? Especially coupled with the numbing download. The very idea of having to register software Microsoft-style before I can use it just makes me feel so powerless and alienated.
I’ve stated before that in my opinion software piracy (like many other illegal activities) ties into a lack of ethics, which is in turn directly related to the “lawlessness is cool” line of thinking being propagated through the media including many games like the NFS: Underground and GTA franchises. (You reap what you sow, eh game makers?)
I don’t believe in piracy, and I’d rather wait till a game is available on discount or I’ll buy it second-hand. However, I don’t plan on buying Half-life 2 (have played it on someone else’s pc however).
And yeah, post-Williams Sierra is dead. Luckily classic Sierra has managed to survive and lives on in the hearts and minds of all of us.
And now 3DRealms, the time is right, release Duke Nukem Forever! (And without any anti-piracy measures. Show us legitimate users that you respect us!)
I guess I’ll weigh in.
Ah, Steam. There are things to both like and hate about it. What makes me like it is that it gives a small publisher like Valve the ability to go right over the head of the nefarious Vivendi and bring their games straight to the end user. No box, no media, no middleman, no problem. I have a strong feeling that this is the future of how not just games, but all media, will be distributed. Using delivery methods like this makes it possible to break the monotonous grip that EA, Vivendi, the RIAA, and the MPAA has on their respective industries.
There are a couple of caveats, however. Let’s talk about Steam, first. Steam activation works by registering an account and then inputting the serial numbers of products you have purchased. The two options for purchasing Half Life 2 was either getting it directly through Steam, or buying the CDs retail and installing them. Both items need the serials put into Steam to unlock them. If you bought through Steam, the software would be downloaded to your hard disk. But what got me is that even though I bought the CDs, not only did the game require me to have CD1 in my drive AND Steam in order to play, but after the initial installation it also spent about 30 mins downloaded 250MB of god-knows-what from Steam even though I had done a full install off of the discs!
Needless to say I found this quite annoying, and it leads into the first caveat. Steam basically wrests control that historically belonged to the end user and gives it to the publisher. Shortly after Half-Life 2 was released, many people bought it for the $50 or so they were asking. There was a group of Steam users, numbering about 20,000 IIRC, who purchased HL2 legitimately but attempted to input serial keys they found on the Internet to gain access to products that didn’t belong to them. Valve went through their system and deleted all of their accounts one day. You know what Valve told them? “Guess what, guys, you have to buy the game again”. I’m sure even those with legitimate appeals were lost in the noise from that action. All of this got me thinking about a hypothetical scenario: Let’s say you buy $150 worth of software from Valve, and your little brother puts in a stolen key and the result is that your account gets nuked. What happens is ALL OF YOUR PURCHASES ARE INVALIDATED. And then Valve tell you to buy the game again, even though they have your money from your previous purchases? Now, I hate having to lug around my original discs with me, so I will install a nocd crack on the game so my system doesn’t bother me asking for for the disc. Needless to say, I did not dare try to put a nocd crack on HL2 for fear that the same thing would happen to me, and that’s total BS.
And what about 10 years from now when I want to give Half Life 2 another spin? Hey I still play KQ1 through now and again and that game is more than 20 years old. Somehow I doubt it will be very easy to get HL2 working again after the same amount of time has passed.
There is of course the argument that the software companies are forced into this position because of widespread piracy. Maybe so, but I heard that Half-Life 2 made it into piracy circles within 2 weeks. So, DRM fails again, and the users are treated like criminals while the pirates play without restriction.
Now for the second caveat, and that’s the price point. What sucked is that I paid less for my copy of HL2 ($42 on price match from Best Buy) than anyone who bought the game through Steam. Now come on, you get no media, Valve doesn’t have to pay a distributor their cut, and they’re still charging full pop? For online distribution to be successful, content creators have to be more fair with pricing. Fair pricing is what will limit piracy, NOT DRM. I wish everyone would get that through their heads.
One last point, which relates to some of the contents of the posts in this thread. Half Life 2 is not a Sierra release. Valve is the game creator. Sierra (which is owned by Vivendi and has since been disolved) is merely the label HL2 was distributed under.
Well, I’m not Ken LOL, but I always hoped the adventure genre would be able to continue with integrity in the MMORPG genre. I started writing a design document in 2000 for such a combination. As far as I know, there are tons of really fun MMORPG games out there, but none that really exist in the adventure genre. I’ve never gotten around to playing any MMORPG’s, because first my internet connection was too slow, and now my computer is too slow.
I loved the adventure games both comanies released, but Sierra is my personal favorite. For me, Police Quest 1 was what brought me into the world of adventure gaming, and PC gaming in general. Police Quest 1, 3-D Helicopter Simulator, Thexder, and trying to sneak a copy of LSL1 from my dad’s office without getting caught are what reeled me in as a Sierra fan, and it just stuck with me ever since. Like others said, Sierra also covered a broader range of storylines… from all of the major series games to everything in between (Codename: Iceman, Conquests, etc.) Needless to say, I own more Sierra games than LucasArts. Plus, it’s the classic Sierra (Ken Williams era and prior) games that I am passionate about to the extent that I still enjoy reading about them on these sites, even though a game hasn’t been released in almost a decade.
LucasArts released some great games… (the Indiana Jones series (Crusade and Fate of Atlantis) and the Monkey Island series were excellent), but my personal favorite will always be Sierra.
I haven’t seen it myself, but there’s supposed to be a easter egg in the church if you type “What is Graham’s first name”
I’m not saying I agree with all of the article, just when he talks about that one puzzle, although Vivendi didn’t help things by not allowing the designers full control.
Thanks for the further info. It makes sense that there is a limited edition of the boxes. I’m going to order it today too.
I thought you guys might be interested to hear that in this follow-up email I received it is implied that the repackaged game was actually modified slightly. I’ve ordered and will let you guys know if there are actually any changes I consider major. (whether good or bad)
“Hi Jim,
The Collector’s Edition Gold Rush is packaged in a very nice wooden box.
Doug hand-made each box and created the artwork which is hand-printed
(silk-screened) on each one. He only made about 250 of these and there are no plans to make any more, so the supply of these are limited. There is a color, poster-sized map showing the routes to California during that period (the same map included in the original game with minor changes). There is a new User’s Guide with helpful hints, and the pre-game story of Jake and Jerrod. The booklet you referred to in your last e-mail is not included since the original game’s copy protection scheme was removed. There were many minor graphics and textual changes made to improve the playability.
You may not even notice the changes, but Doug and Ken made these changes based on the years of feedback they received from players.If you would like to purchase one, our preferred method of payment is paypal; it is easy and fast. I will send an invoice for you through paypal, and if you choose not to purchase a game just disregard the invoice. I usually ship orders the day that payment is received, or the next day if the order comes in toward the end of the day or on a weekend. If you order and aren’t happy with what you get, you can return it, less postage.
I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Carol”
