Sierra Game Remakes

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    • #26933 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      <LABEL id=HbSession SessionId=”771189169″>Hello all,</LABEL>
      <LABEL SessionId=”771189169″></LABEL>
      <LABEL SessionId=”771189169″>No doubt many of you have seen the efforts put forth by AGD Interactive regarding the King’s Quest (and now Quest for Glory) series. It’s amazing that so much effort went into the KQ I & II remakes with digital music and speech. If one can survive the download time, the result is well worth it. I was blown away by the how exact KQ I was to the original, and I enjoyed most of how KQ II was handled.</LABEL>
      <LABEL SessionId=”771189169″></LABEL>
      <LABEL SessionId=”771189169″>I can’t wait for QFG II to come out this year. Anybody else have thoughts on the ‘remakes’?</LABEL>
      <LABEL SessionId=”771189169″></LABEL>
      <LABEL SessionId=”771189169″>p.s. – For those who haven’t heard of these projects, here’s the link to their site:</LABEL>
      <LABEL SessionId=”771189169″>
      Link: http://www.agdinteractive.com/(http://www.agdinteractive.com/)&nbsp;
      </LABEL>

    • #26934 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      Yes! I’ve played KQ1 and 2 remakes and I’d have to say that they were alot more easier to play. They should do a KQ3 also but maybe ease up on Manannan catching you every 5 minutes. In the future, I’d really like to see alot of the earlier games remade like Space Quest 1 and 2, The Black Cauldron, Gold Rush and some early Police Quests.

      What about a Gabriel Knight 4!!! But still, it would need the magic touch from Jane Jensen to make it an exclusive Gabriel Knight Adventure!

      That makes me think. Most of the time I read on interviews and such that they stop sequels from happening because the budget is low. Depending on the fan’s budgets, what if a group got together and started a funding program of donations to help create these awesome games! (esp GK4!!) Maybe I just have high hopes. 🙂

    • #26935 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      No amount of donations would cause Vivendi to change their mind. Probably the only thing that would is the success of the new Leisure Suit Larry game. Hopefully, if they do decide to bring back classic series, they decide to have the creators of the game work on it, unlike the new larry game (but the developers are huge fans of the games and I think they’ll do a good job)

    • #26936 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      I was thrilled when I played these games, particularly “King’s Quest 2: Romancing The Stones”, which did a fantastic job of both recreating the feeling of the original game, and also adding some really great new content.

      I thought the art was just lovely, and the voice acting and music was really well done. They’ve done such a good job. It was a real pleasure to play something with real heart, like the original Sierra games.

      Can’t wait to see their interpretation of QFG2.

      And yes, it would be great to see them remake KQ3, which is probably my favorite Sierra game. 🙂

      I would encourage ANY Sierra fan to check out these games, particuarly “KQ2: Romancing The Stones” which provides a whole new adventure for anyone out there longing for some fresh gaming goodness in the classic Sierra flavor.

      – Murray

    • #26937 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      Frankly, I wouldn’t. Remakes totally ruin the experience. After finishing the QG2 remake, they should stay well away from Sierra’s games. Especially after what they did to KQ2.

    • #26938 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Sierra Game Remakes) Frankly, I wouldn’t. Remakes totally ruin the experience. After finishing the QG2 remake, they should stay well away from Sierra’s games. Especially after what they did to KQ2.

      Well, both points of view are valid – that remakes either revitalize old games, or ruin them. One thing you can say about AGDI though, they certainly work hard at what they do. Everyone should be free to have their own opinion though – and you can’t make an opinion unless you know of the games and try them out 🙂

    • #26939 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      I really liked what Tierra “did to” KQ2. They made it into a much more robust game, but still kept the basics from the original — it was like playing a brand new Sierra game. I appreciate all their hard work and think what they’re doing is amazing — especially for free. The original KQ2 may have sentimental value for some, but it’s not much by today’s standards. Not only did AGDI give us something new to play, they did it in a way that was respectful to the original.

      I don’t see how a remake is harming anyone or “ruining the experience.” If you don’t want to play the remake, go play the original — it’ll give you a good 45-minutes or so of entertainment. How is Tierra’s remake ruining your experience of playing the original?

      On the flip side, those who want to experience the game (and the feeling of what those old games were like, for free, on today’s computers without technical problems) can do so with the remake.

      Just my $0.02. I’m looking forward to the QfG2 remake – in fact, I’m waiting to play the rest in the series until after that comes out (I have already played the QfG1 VGA remake of Sierra’s, but the rest of the series is currently sitting on my shelf, on hold).

      -emily

    • #26940 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      Actually I was extremely excited to hear about Tierra’s (now AGDI) remake of King’s Quest. I waited a long time for them to finish, and couldn’t wait to download and play it.

      Then, when I gave it a spin, it suddenly struck me – it really wasn’t King’s Quest 1 anymore. It was something else. Adding a point and click interface and “upgrading” the graphics and sound added a whole new dynamic to it. To rephrase that, I don’t think they ADDED anything. Rather they simply OBSCURED the classic originals. (And they are currently doing the same to QG2.)

      So when a player says he’s/she’s finished KQ1 or 2, but in fact only played through the AGDI versions, what is he/she actually saying?

      Though I must add, I hold exactly the same feelings towards Sierra’s own VGA remakes of their games. The simply fact that they would commission these remakes (of their own classics) was another chink in their armour. Deservedly, none of them sold very well (and Sierra lost a lot of money).

    • #26941 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: re: Sierra Game Remakes) I realise some of the following may sound like my spitting bile, but it’s not. I simply feel very strongly about the issue of remakes. And Classic Sierra meant a lot to me back in the eighties and early nineties.

      I really liked what Tierra “did to” KQ2. They made it into a much more robust game, but still kept the basics from the original — it was like playing a brand new Sierra game. I appreciate all their hard work and think what they’re doing is amazing — especially for free. The original KQ2 may have sentimental value for some, but it’s not much by today’s standards. Not only did AGDI give us something new to play, they did it in a way that was respectful to the original. 1. It was nothing like playing a brand new Sierra game. Why not? 1. Because it isn’t a brand new Sierra game. Because Classic Sierra doesn’t exist anymore. 2. It’s free. Yes. Certainly no true Sierra fan would buy into such sacrilege. 3. The original KQ2 isn’t much by today’s standards? Are you kidding me? It’s King’s Quest 2! It’s King Graham rescuing his Queen, the future love of his life! 4. AGDI did give us something new to play. Except, by it’s very nature, this remake is not respectful to the original. Different interface. Different graphics and sound. Different gameplay. Not designed by the designer of the original. You call that respect? I don’t see how a remake is harming anyone or “ruining the experience.” If you don’t want to play the remake, go play the original — it’ll give you a good 45-minutes or so of entertainment. <GRIN>How is Tierra’s remake ruining your experience of playing the original? 1. Sure it’s not *harming* anyone (physically), except of course the gamer who plays the remake, but never finished the original. 2. It takes much more than 45 minutes to play through. Especially if you truly ENTER the world through your imagination, as the goal of all successful adventure games should be. On the flip side, those who want to experience the game (and the feeling of what those old games were like, for free, on today’s computers without technical problems) can do so with the remake. No. Those who want to experience the game, and the feeling of what those old games were like, cannot do so with the remake. Remakes are, by definition, new creations. It is not the same game. The only way you can experience the original game and the feelings it (still) generates, is by playing the ORIGINAL. AGI games run fine whatever OS is on your PC. While DOSbox runs the rest (of the DOS games). Just my $0.02. I’m looking forward to the QfG2 remake – in fact, I’m waiting to play the rest in the series until after that comes out (I have already played the QfG1 VGA remake of Sierra’s, but the rest of the series is currently sitting on my shelf, on hold). You are waiting for the fabrication that is the QG2 remake, in order to play through the whole series? And you’ve already played the QG1 remake? That means you’re going to come to the end of QG5, only to have to go back again and replay the original QG1 and the original QG2. That’s the only way you are going to experience Quest for Glory as it was/is meant to be played. And those are the only TRUE versions of these games that exist. Actually, I’m in the process of playing through the whole series myself. And the 16-colour games work perfectly in DOSbox. Why in the world would you prefer the remakes over them??? These are classics! And like good art, no classic game can ever be replaced by a remake. You’ve seen all those modern re-interpretations of the Mona Lisa, havn’t you? Not worth much compared to the original, are they?

    • #26942 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      Of course, we are both entitled to our opinions. 🙂

      I am nostalgic for the old games, and I can’t say I’d rather play a ‘reinterpretation’ of, say, King’s Quest 6 than the original. But no amount of debate is going to change how I feel about AGDI’s remakes — I like their games, I respect their work, and I see what they’ve done as a tribute to the old Sierra, not as sacrilege.

      -emily

    • #26943 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Sierra Game Remakes) I strongly disagree with most of your points, and there’s a few thousand AGDI fans out there who would disagree with you as well. You have a strong opinion but I would say there’s not many who share your opinion, at least to such a degree. Still, you’re entitled to your opinion just as those who disagree with you are entitled to theirs. I don’t want to get into a big argument, so I will just make a few points of rebuttal (I’m not really a debater, I shouldn’t even reply at all!).

      2. It’s free. Yes. Certainly no true Sierra fan would buy into such sacrilege.

      Many Sierra fans would literally “buy” “such sacrilege.” AGDI often gets people asking in their guestbook how to donate money to them (though they don’t accept for the legal trouble they could get into if they do). I don’t agree that a “true” Sierra fan must *only* like the very original Sierra releases. A purist, perhaps – and I guess that would be how you view the Sierra games.

      The original KQ2 isn’t much by today’s standards?

      The whole point of adding “better” sound and graphics, and in the case of KQ2 an actual plot, is to bring the game up to the standard of games like King’s Quest V – which is what Sierra itself did with their remakes. That’s what is meant by “standards.” Again, I think you’re a purist in this regard – many people will disagree with you.

      Especially if you truly ENTER the world through your imagination, as the goal of all successful adventure games should be.

      The enhanced graphics and sound and story make it even more possible for you enter the world through your imagination… if this was truly your point, you would be an advocate of text adventures and no graphics at all… And AGDI’s remakes, by their download #s, *are* very successful.

      Different interface. Different graphics and sound. Different gameplay. Not designed by the designer of the original. You call that respect?

      1000s of hours spent meticulously programming, making graphics, beta testing, recording music… a true tribute to the process that Sierra went through while making their games. I call that the highest form of respect.

      You might get some people here who agree with you on general points… but you might want to prepare yourself for some angry posts in return (play nice everyone).

    • #26944 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      Alright, we’ll agree to disagree then. 🙂 Still, after they’re done with the QG2 thingamajig, I’d love for AGDI to reveal their true identities, start a real company, and create an original point and click adventure game of their own design. If they put the same amount of effort into it as their remakes, then I’m sure it’ll have the potential to be really good.

    • #26945 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: Sierra Game Remakes) …start a real company, and create an original point and click adventure game of their own design.

      From the occasional hints on their message boards, it seems that this is what they plan to do. I’m glad we agree on something!

    • #26946 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: Sierra Game Remakes) Frankly, I wouldn’t. Remakes totally ruin the experience. After finishing the QG2 remake, they should stay well away from Sierra’s games. Especially after what they did to KQ2. That’s a funny view point seeing as King’s Quest 2 was rubbish to start off with. Even for a 10 year old (me when I played it), it seemed like a bunch of ideas and things copied from fairytales all thrown together to cash in on the success of Kings Quest 1. Luckily Kings Quest 3 well and truly erased the memory of how bad part 2 was. What they did for Kings Quest 2 was IMO awesome, and had the effect of getting a lot of attention in the gaming community for adventure games in general.

    • #26947 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: re: Sierra Game Remakes) King’s Quest 2 was rubbish to start off with. Even for a 10 year old (me when I played it), it seemed like a bunch of ideas and things copied from fairytales all thrown together to cash in on the success of Kings Quest 1. Luckily Kings Quest 3 well and truly erased the memory of how bad part 2 was. What they did for Kings Quest 2 was IMO awesome, and had the effect of getting a lot of attention in the gaming community for adventure games in general.As a big fan of KQ2, I feel I must step in to offer my view. For me, playing KQ2 for the first time (a few days after it was published — I have the 5 1/4 inch disk in a nice frame) was a revelation. The game world felt very vibrant and alive, and the plot/quests were fairly logical and fun. Man, the agony of finally being able to open that door on the island and then facing another one… Yeah, there’s a lot of faery tales in KQ2, but I think that worked out all right.

      KQ3 was a better game still. In fact, I feel every successor was a step up — until the seventh one, which I’ve never really gotten into, despite owning three copies ;). I have the eight one as well, and although I did play it to the end, it didn’t really feel like a KQ game.

      – Sven

    • #26948 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (Why Tierra Re-Makes Are So Great)

      I couldn’t agree more that remakes (at least those like Tierra’s KQ2) are great. Here’s why:

      Those of us who are longtime adventure gamers greatly miss having quality games come out that are driven by plot and not just twitch reflex. KQ2vga added a great deal of story to the game – which made it both familiar, and new at the same time. The music was top-notch and I had a great time playing it.

      I think it’s remarkable that these fine folks have made their labor of love available to the rest of us.

      Personally, I would love to see them do a totally orignal game – or at least enlarge the story on any future remakes they choose to do. We can hold on our original floppy disks and keep them “sacred” while still having a lot of fun playing the remakes.
      uploaded 6/17/2004 7:04:07 PM

    • #26949 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Why Tierra Re-Makes Are So Great)

      So why are Tierra remakes so great?

    • #26950 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Why Tierra Re-Makes Are So Great) To me personaly, they are so great becouse they have succeded in capturing the spirit of Sierra adventures, I loved Sierra’s remakes and I felt it was fitting AGDInteracitve did the job for those games that were left out. Somehow to me, personaly, the best adventures appeared in VGA, so my fondest memory exist in those views, I have, of course, played most of the adventure series from Sierra and loved most of them and really liked the rest. Enhancing the games in new graphics brought them closer to my fondest view of adventure games. The longer plot and extra puzzles in KQ2 really made it a better experience. It is a bit hard to believe that better graphics and interface would worsen the game, but it’s your opinion and it is to be respected.
      However, I believe that the massive amount of work that Tierra put into these remakes is also to be respected. Like another person already mentioned.
      The fact that they released it for free only emphasizes the effort that was put into making them, they never demanded anything in return and it had brought back fond memories to many old sierra fans and if they perhaps influenced some younger FPS loving gamers to play an adventure game, perhaps even buying the series or trying out other adventure games, or encouraging someone else to replay old Sierra adventure games… well that, if nothing else, makes them great, in my humble opinion, of course.

    • #26951 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Why Tierra Re-Makes Are So Great) Nicely Said!!!!

      MikeP.

    • #26952 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Why Tierra Re-Makes Are So Great)

      Tierra games are helping to keep alive a genre that I truly enjoy – a genre where storytelling, exploration and logical thinking are more important than twitch reflexes. My kids play a lot of games on the PS2 – and they’re “fine”… but, they have never grabbed me and made me want to play for hours on end the way the old Sierra/Lucasarts games did. Granted, the early Sierra games were pretty basic. There was only so much you could do with that old technology. But, with KQ2vga, Tierra has fleshed out a very basic story, given it depth and a real plot. Playing KQ2vga was nostalgic and yet new at the same time – and I couldn’t have enjoyed it anymore than I did. It’s unbelieveable that AGDs would put in the amount of time and effort they did – and just for the love of adventure games. That’s pretty great!

    • #26953 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (Re:)

      I thought they were excellent! They did a great job, I can’t wait for QFG2… I really couldn’t advise any remakes more than KQ1 and KQ2 by AGDI. I suggest you go to http://www.agdinteractive.com/&nbsp; NOW, if you haven’t already.

    • #26954 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Re:)

      If you have any respect for the Williams, then avoid this site and these games like the plague. Obviously “Danny Desse'” and this Tierra company don’t have any respect, and now they want to flaunt it.

      I’m all for emulating and redistributing old games when they aren’t available commercially (abandonware), but claiming that the puzzles in KQ2 have to be remade because in Roberta’s original “the puzzles were illogical and the storyline was too sparse”?!?!?!? What chutzpah! What amazes me the most is you have the nerve to post this link on one of the William’s websites, where they are hosting the site and paying for bandwidth.

      If you think you can make a better game, then make one under your own name. Just don’t try to leech off of the spotless reputation of Roberta Williams.

    • #26955 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Re:)

      I personally find this comment offensive. Please don’t tell me I don’t respect Sierra or Roberta and Ken. I could just as easily say you’re the one who doesn’t respect them by posting inflammatory comments such as this (directed at someone who did / said nothing wrong) on Ken’s messageboard.

      I don’t want to start a flame war over this, it’s just not worth it. If you don’t like the remade games fine, stay away from them. But don’t say that people who do like them are disrespectful. Ken certainly hasn’t come forward and said that he doesn’t want us to talk about them here or that he is insulted by the fact that we like the remakes (which I highly doubt he is). Unless he does say something to that effect, there’s no reason not to discuss the remakes and give Tierra the praise that I (and clearly, a lot of other people) feel they deserve.

      -emily

      ps The KQ1 remake actually boosted the sales of King’s Quest 8, which was the only KQ game still available at retail when the KQ1 remake came out. That’s a lot more than you can say for abandonware.

    • #26956 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: Re:)

      I agree with emily.

    • #26957 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: re: Re:)

      The quote was lifted directly from their site in regards to the original KQ2:

      “…the puzzles were illogical and the storyline was too sparse.”

      You tell me who is being disrespectful to who. I would love to see someone “reinvent” Super Mario Brothers anonymously, claim the original was “illogical” on their site, then go to Nintendo.com and advertise it on their boards. It’s quite simple – Nintendo would rightfully sue them and they would get booed out of the message boards for disrespecting Shigeru Miyamoto.

      If you want to create your own adventure game, by all means under the sun do it. Just market it as your own game and don’t try to ride Roberta’s coattails.

    • #26958 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game) I agree with J. Wooten. I continually see, more often than not, on this forum folks bashing people who don’t like, for whatever reason, Tierra’s remakes and the critics are certainly entitled to their opinions the same as the Tierra worshipers are entitled to theirs. And, as far as I’ve read on this forum over the last year, there’s certainly no shortage of Tierra fans. Personally, I don’t mind a genuine remake of a classic game as long as they keep the original plot and storyline intact and simply update the graphics/sounds/animation. I’ve heard Tierra did just that with King’s Quest I, although I’ve not played it myself. However, their so-called “remake” of King’s Quest II is no such thing. It should have been called something else entirely rather than simply changing the subtitle from Romancing the Throne to Romancing the Stones and keeping the main title. If you’re going to alter the storyline/plot/puzzles, then it becomes a completely different game IMO, not a “remake” at all. No problem with that, just name it originally and don’t call it a “remake” of somebody else’s previous work. I, for one, did like the original KQ2 and would indeed like a remake to take advantage of newer machines, but not an altered game and calling it a “remake.”

    • #26959 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game) My view on the Tierra remakes is (sorry about the length): If its fine for people who remake movies and t.v. shows to change things (e.g. Planet of the Apes, Starsky and Hutch) or people who turn books into movies to have creative differences e.g Harry Potter movies, the superb Lord of the Rings movies – then it IS most definitely, perfectly fine for computer games to be remade with artistic differences and changes. Tierra’s games have done a superb job of putting adventure games back in the spotlight of the computing press………how can that be a bad thing? I’m sure if you ask the original designers about the Tierra remakes, they would be flattered not angry about being copied. I wouldn’t call the Tierra remakes “riding on the coattails” either, as they have put in thousands of hours of work, unpaid, and have produced some stunning stuff in those games. 99% of remakes are done by different people than those who wrote the original games – it is their ‘enterpretation’ of the game. Based on your very flawed arguments, the Quest for Glory 1 and Police Quest 1 remakes that Sierra themselves did were ‘riding on the coattails’ of the original designers, because they made notable changes to a couple of parts of the remakes. And finally a couple of points for previous posters: Maybe you should tell Nintendo to contact their lawyers, as 20 of their games are being remade and advertised at the official remakes web site – http://www.remakes.org – including 5 different Mario games. Myamoto must feel terribly insulted. The comment about posting disrespectful opinions on one of the Williams websites is not entirely correct – the website URL is actually “Sierra Gamers”…………….so I think that means Ken wanted Sierra Gamer’s to post their opinions on this board. I’d rather read someones critique and reasoning about the Sierra games than all those endless boring posts of people saying “Your games taught me how to read” and “I am your biggest fan”. The front page of this website actually says something along the lines of “this site is mine and yours” and “I want you to challenge each other”. In the end, I reckon we should leave it up to people to have different tastes and opinions – don’t yell at someone because they like something.

    • #26960 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game)

      This will be my last post on the subject. I don’t care what Tierra does or whose product they “remake”. I definitely have a problem with someone advertising a product, on this site, that purports to “improve” a legendary game that many here hold dear to their hearts and then insult the original designer, a legend in the industry, by making insulting comments about the original work. It’s simply a matter of ethics and respect for intellectual property rights.

      True to the earlier quote, Ken doesn’t have to comment on this discussion or the people “improving” his products. It’s miles beneath him. But contrary to whatever you read into this site, it is still Ken William’s site. A certain amount of respect for him and Roberta is expected from the visitors, and those of us that treasure the memories Sierra provided us shouldn’t tolerate insults.

      If you feel this Tierra group has an legitimacy, you may want to encourage them to reword their marketing material.

    • #26961 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game)

      Dixie, did you play Tierra’s KQ2 game? I felt the same way you did when I heard what they were doing. I thought it was an awful idea and it went against what they seemed to want to do — preserving the games. Then I played it, and found they really had preserved the game. The bare bones story is still there. They just embellished it and made it into the type of game that KQ2 could have been, had the technology been available when it was made.

      If you’ve played Tierra’s KQ2 and still feel this way that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion. But if you haven’t played it I urge you to try it out (it’s free, why not?) Personally, I’m glad I got over my initial stubborn “How dare they?!” reaction and played it, because not only is it an amazing game, it’s also an amazing tribute.

      As to the “bashing” comment — no one’s bashing people who don’t like Tierra. Saying “I like what Tierra’s doing” is entirely different from putting someone down for not liking them. Like or dislike whatever you want, but expect that others are going to have different opinions.

      > If you feel this Tierra group has an legitimacy, you may want to encourage them to reword their marketing material.

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with their marketing material, personally.

      The quote above about the illogical puzzles was taken out of context. Here’s the full quote:

      “King’s Quest II was the sequel to the original King’s Quest game designed by Roberta Williams. Many people regard this to be the game most in need of an upgrade. Several people were discontented with this sequel, believing the puzzles were illogical and the storyline was too sparse. Additionally, the graphics, which were impressive for its time, are now painfully outdated, and several computers cannot even run the game with sound anymore! To make things even worse, this classic is no longer available in stores.”

      They are not bashing the game. They’re stating why they bothered to embellish it in the first place. Listening to the wishes of the fans… hey, what a concept! Sounds kind of like how Sierra was run in the old days.

      -emily

    • #26962 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game)

      Nicely said Emily, somehow I find it very silly when people criticize and judge something they haven’t even tried, very unfair methinks.
      Although J.Wooten has vowed to stay out of this discussion I will allow myself a comment on his writing.
      Somehow when I read your posts J.Wooten I keep getting the feeling you are angry somehow, using sarcasm via “” and claiming how AGDInteractive is insulting Ken Williams, although somehow it seems the only person insulted here is you yourself. How can you use such harsh words for a group that is obviously a great fan of Sierra and Ken and Roberta Williams? If I didn’t know better ot would have only read your posts I would think that their site sports words beggining with F,S,B etc. in regards to Sierra, Ken and Roberta.
      Have you thought that perhaps you yourself are insulting Ken? So easily you claim other people are insulting him, when you put words in Ken’s mouth he has never said, is that how you show respect to Ken and Roberta? By saying things are below him? But I might be mistaken, perhaps you do know all about him and your words are sold gold in that respect (shame on me for being sarcastic).
      However I still believe if Ken felt insulted in any way he would answer, he would say if anything bothered him. He has answered multitude of questions he had no obligation to, to bring us information and insight into things we might have otherwise never discovered, and yet you say this thread is below him, harsh words.
      But it seems there is no insult in any way, thankfully.

      Shame on me for writing such a post, all I can say in my apology is read Emily’s post again, as it is very useful and much more informative and skip mine in the second reading.

    • #26963 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Sierra Game Remakes) Alright, let me try to wrap this up. The reason Ken or Roberta don’t comment much about AGDI is because I assume they want to avoid making direct statements regarding fan projects because of the obvious legal implications, not because this is beneath them.

      In the context of speaking about AGDI, Just Adventure asked Roberta Williams in an interview, “How has the “fan game” situation affected you personally? Are you opposed to fans creating games based upon commercial series? How do you feel about potential copyright violations these games pose?”

      Roberta answered: “I suppose if I were Sierra I would not be happy, as Sierra owns the copyrights to these games; I don’t. This is a question which should be posed to the people at Sierra. I don’t receive royalties anymore from King’s Quest as Sierra doesn’t really go out of its way to sell it. Therefore, these sort of “fan” games aren’t affecting me as far as my pocketbook goes. In fact, it could be said that by “fans” producing these games that they are, in a way, keeping them alive. I kind of feel that, if Sierra isn’t going to do it, then somebody should! I just hope they do a good job and portray these games in a good light so that people who have never experienced them will understand what they were all about. You never know, these “fan” games could be keeping the plate “warm” if I ever return with another game!”

      I strongly feel that if Roberta were to contribute to this discussion, she would say that in fact AGDI’s games are protraying her original games “in a good light.” Having said that, as this is obviously something we all feel strong about, and hearing nothing from Ken or Roberta on this debate, I suggest to end this thread, since everyone has pretty much had a chance to make their points and we don’t want to get to the point where anyone’s feelings get hurt with harsh words.

    • #26964 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game) I haven’t commented on this topic, only because I’m still sidetracked. I’m on a boat in the middle of nowhere — with a rotten internet connection.

      Actually — I really don’t have much of an opinion. I doubt that anyone will get sued. But, I also doubt that a fan game can ever make money, and there is a side of me that is still capitalistic. I have trouble taking anything seriously that doesn’t have as a goal to make money. My problem with fan games is that they take LOTS of work, but the ultimate marketability of the product is handicapped — so, either the game never finishes, or, when it is done, its ultimate distribution is limited (by the fact it can’t attract a first-tier publisher).

      In short — I have no problem with fan games — but, I would prefer to see people that work hard and do great things receive compensation that reflects the value of their efforts. This isn’t possible with a fan game.

      -Ken W

    • #26965 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game) Dixie, did you play Tierra’s KQ2 game?

      No, I haven’t played it and had no desire to when I found that the game content was not KQ2. I don’t know, call me “old-fashioned” or “original” or whatever.

      I felt the same way you did when I heard what they were doing. I thought it was an awful idea and it went against what they seemed to want to do — preserving the games. Then I played it, and found they really had preserved the game. The bare bones story is still there.

      OK, perhaps I might try it out, for curiosity.

      They just embellished it and made it into the type of game that KQ2 could have been, had the technology been available when it was made.

      What does that mean? You can have a fantastic game, regardless of the technology of the time. Technology does not a great game make, but technology can and does extend an already great game. Again, I LIKED the orginal KQ2, in other words I don’t agree with Tierra’s modern summation of it. It wasn’t the technology that prevented anything, they claimed the game design itself was subpar, nothing to do with any technology. I’ve played my share of garbage games created with the most modern technology and I’ve played my share of great classics created in the 16 color, pre-sound card era. Game design is the meat of the game, not technology.

      If you’ve played Tierra’s KQ2 and still feel this way that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion. But if you haven’t played it I urge you to try it out (it’s free, why not?) Personally, I’m glad I got over my initial stubborn “How dare they?!” reaction and played it, because not only is it an amazing game, it’s also an amazing tribute.

      Exactly. As I said before, I may try it out, but unlike you, I AM stubborn on this kind of thing. Again, if the main game content is changed, it becomes a different game, IMO. As I said in the initial post, that wouldn’t mean that the Tierra game is bad, but that it should be regarded as their own original game, not what KQ2 should of been, would of been, or whatever else. They don’t speak for me when they talk bad about the original KQ2 because I liked it in 1985 when I first played it.

    • #26966 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game) I found the AGDI reinterpretation of King’s Quest II very enjoyable. The obviously tremendous care and hard work that went into the game, as well as an ever present sense of respect for and lots of often very funny cross references to the original games should make it an enjoyable experience for every Sierra fan. For me, the game added to the enjoyment of the original, it didn’t take away from or even destroy it.

      I love the original King’s Quest II; it was one of the first adventure games I’d ever played on a hercules amber m/c monitor back in the late eighties when I could hardly read German (Yeah, you taught me how to read – English, too – but that’s a different story ;o) I remember how the PC Beeper Greensleaves music in the intro made for a fantastic (as in “fantasy”) atmosphere and how frightening that old hag Hagatha was. However, when I started playing the AGDI remake I had played the original often enough to know all hidden treasure locations, all the dangers, all the hidden jokes (I still love the Space Quest ad and was amused by the way AGDI adapted this). It was one of the first adventure games I’d ever played on a hercules amber m/c monitor back in the late eighties when I could hardly read German (Yeah, you taught me how to read – English, too – but that’s a different story ;o)

      So when I found that this game could be relived – and with a wildly expanded story that is much more eccentric and audaciously complex than the original – I was overjoyed! Playing this little gem of a fan game (there’s a LOT of fan adventures out there, but few are THAT good) that so wonderfully combines the old and the new takes you in a well known world – and fills it with so many new things to explore and to experience that while all seems very familiar, it’s really a completely new game – and that should appeal especially to fans of the original who should know it by heart by now.

      Admittedly, I don’t care overly much for originality as long as I find something overally enjoyable. Although KQII RTS *is* original in many aspects it lends a lot from other games but I still see that in the hommage light. Some story elements reminded me a lot of QFG4 – which was great, because I loved QFG4! I was also intrigued by the way the “Black Cloak Society” was woven into the story (kind of a conspiracy theory that developed on a KQ fan forum. It’s all about all the evil wizards in KQ games wearing black cloaks, which is of course a symbol for dark magic – in the perception of the theory’s followers, however, this uniform indicates a secret conspiracy – don’t ask me how uniforms go along with secret conspiracies, however – I still like the idea :o)

      Bottom line: in my opinion this game is up to par with the games produced and commercially distributed by good old Sierra in the early nineties (some ten years ago but aren’t we all hopelessly nostalgic anyway? ;o)
      It gives you the chance to explore Kolyma in 256 colors and a whole new challenge on its own at the same time.
      And last but not least: You’ll always be able to go back and play the original KQII RTT which unalteredly remains the enjoyable classic adventure game it has always been. You might add to it by trying out someone else’s reinterpreation or keep it in fond memory, just as you wish. I would suggest to do the former (widening your horizon on that which you hold dear can’t be wrong, can it?), but anyone should pursue happiness as they see fit.

    • #26967 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game)

      Simon, that was all very well stated.

      In response to Dixie Dog’s questions, I do see the KQ2 remake as a completely different game than the original. One doesn’t replace the other, in my mind, and playing the “new” version doesn’t change the fact that I very much enjoyed playing the old version when I was a kid. Playing Tierra’s version only enriches the experience.

      -emily

    • #26968 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Adventure Games: Old and New)

      Dixie, definately give Kings Quest 2: Romancing the Stones a try. Well worth it.

      As Emily says, you may as well consider it an entirely new game if you’d prefer to see it that way. It has a lot of new content, and is a great game.

      I adored King’s Quest 2 as a child, but upon playing it again more recently, it definately lacks a strong story, just as is stated on the Tierra site. This fact will never lessen my sense of nostalgia about the game, and the experience of playing the game is still full of joy.

      Getting all dogmatic about it just seems absurd to me. Utterly absurd.

      But irrelevant of all this, I would LOVE to see someone (such as Tierra) make an original game with the same flavor as the old Sierra games, or Tierra’s remakes.

      I’ve tried playing games like Syberia, Dracula, Myst, Riven, The Longest Journey, etc, etc, and although they are obviously good games in many ways, they just don’t have the heart or the magic of the old Sierra games.

      Now, getting older doesn’t help the situation, and have an ever increasing expectation on the level of detail and immersiveness in computer games makes it harder and harder to make games that really impress people.

      If King’s Quest 1 came out onto store shelves for the first time tomorrow, I seriously doubt that it would have the impression on people that it did in 1984. At the time it was shear magic, and so it holds a special place in people’s hearts now, and was the seed for much of what we now take for granted about computer games. But if you held it up against a top-of-the-line modern adventure game, today’s audience would probably not be very impressed.

      That being said, I think that it achieves an open-ended in the design that lacks from most modern games. The best thing about it was just how open the world is, allowing the player to gather objects and explore, and just let the world seep in through their senses as they wander the land.

      I’d love to see a modern adventure game created with the sort of love and attention given to each and every detail as the old Sierra games.

      And yes, I’d rather see an original game that a remake, but this doesn’t reduce the fantastic work done by Tierra on their own re-interpreted and expended game, “Romancing the Stones”.

      – Murray

      PS – I was travelling in Europe recently (I’m from Australia), and while in Spain, I was overcome with strong nostalgic emotions related to times spent in my youth playing King’s Quest games (I was travelling with my twin brother who used to play the games with me also). The beautiful Spanish landscape filled my senses and really reminded me of the lands depicted in King’s Quest 1, and other King’s Quest lands. And I started to write down ideas for a King’s Quest styled game, drawing a map and writing down ideas for how the characters, objects and locations could tie together to make “puzzles”.

      I could post these notes to this forum if people are interested.

    • #26969 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: re: Adventure Games: Old and New)

      Yes, please do! The more ideas – the more we have to work with.

    • #26970 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Adventure Games: Old and New) Argh… I didn’t even want to read the entire thread.

      No new players (today) would have played the originals. Can you blame them?? CGA and EGA graphics doesn’t look very good at today’s standards! These remakes introduced millions to Roberta’s KQ. I know this, because I’ve encountered many people who played these games and this was a first for them!! And everyone of them knew very well that Roberta Williams created the original, since AGDI made sure she was credited in each game!

      And many of these new fans would jump at the chance to buy the originals now… if they could.

    • #26971 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Adventure Games: Old and New) I suggest you read the thread. 🙂 Good graphics don’t make a good game, and vice versa.

    • #26972 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (re: Sierra Game Remakes)

      I loved the remakes as well as the originals. I as well would like to see a remake of kings quest 3 and 4.

    • #26973 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Look at me, the newcomer opening up all the old cans of worms! Sorry in advance if anyone didn’t have an interest in reviving this thread!

      I usually hate remakes, for all the reasons already stated. Perhaps the only notable exceptions to this rule are the films “Sabrina,” “The Thomas Crown Affair,” and “The Lord of the Rings.” LucasArts (forgive my blasphemy!) game remakes — Loom, Monkey Island 1, and Indy Crusade — are also exceptions, as I see them as enhancing the experience without changing or adding anything. Similarly, I enjoyed Sierra’s own King’s Quest, Space Quest, and Leisure Suit Larry remakes.

      When it comes to fan additions or alterations to existing work, any work at all, I almost always hate it. Fans will never be able to sit in the minds of the creators, so fans will never truly get it right. Sure, they might be able to clone what the original authors did yesterday, but do they know what the authors want to do tomorrow? But this has its exception, too: I was blown away by AGDI’s King’s Quest II. Of course, this is a notable exception because Josh Mandel worked on it. Still, it’s not the same as having Roberta. Had it been a Space Quest remake, I’d be singing a completely different tune.

      I have mixed feelings about Sierra fan games, for all the reasons already stated, as well as a few that most here seem to be missing. From what I gathered of Roberta and Ken’s own words, Sierra was a dynamic product of its times. What made it special was that it was born from cutting-edge technology — being the pioneer in the industry on all fronts — and it embraced and simultaneously created new technology with each new game. The King’s Quest IX Project addresses quite a lot of this rather admirably, but, as I’ve mentioned before, it just isn’t a King’s Quest without Roberta.

      I see AGDI and KQ9 as two ends of the fan spectrum: one focuses on the original story with reminiscent technology, while the other focuses on new story with new technology. While I immensely enjoyed the King’s Quest II remake, and I know I will probably be disappointed with King’s Quest IX’s story, I really feel that King’s Quest IX is the “right way” for fan games.

      The last part that Ken mentioned is the capitalism: they didn’t make their games just because they loved them, but because it paid bills. Even more importantly, whether or not it was their primary goal, the market popularity allowed their games to contribute to the industry. If fans come up with something new, and I think KQ9 might be a mold-breaker being a pure adventure game, it would be nice if the industry took notice of it and said, “Yeah, WE should do that, too!” If anything, that would be the best (and, probably, only) way to revive the adventure game industry. The only way to do that, however, is to market and sell the product so that it competes with the other software makers and, most importantly, gets noticed.

      In short, I don’t think there should be any more remakes. Remakes are just reminders of the low-tech past and are all the more fuel for current game companies to go in the opposite direction. There should be additions, but I would love to see these guided by the original authors and marketed. Sure, it means that you and I won’t be able to get nice freebies, but if it means getting more, better, longer (faster, stronger…) adventure games back into mainstream, I think it’s worth another measly $50.

      –Matt

    • #26974 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Matt,

      Your comments are your own opinion and I respect that. However, there are other opinions out there that you should keep in mind.

      1. It is very simple to crank out a remake, but work translates into quality. I made 3-D characters for a remake of Colonel’s Bequest, and created custom backgrounds. Also I found a number of people who wanted to help. Remakes are plentiful, or there are very few remakes; it all depends on your point of view.

      2. I had the fortune of working in the field that allowed me to improve my programming skills and graphics to the point I was getting paid to make games. Now I do not have an employer, and the talent is out there, it’s just waiting. I’ve spent countless hours tweaking my projects.

      3. Since it’s so simple to make a remake, and the talent is out there waiting to get started on a concrete project, all we seem to be lacking is direction. There’s too much other stuff out there right now, some people don’t even have the Internet.

      4. Imagine if we had a real President who provided the impetus to get the ball rolling. Bush already mentioned that he wants everyone to get high-speed access, but some people don’t even have a computer. The computer world is Baby and “Toddler” and ‘Noob’ or they are Elite or Hackers or Phreakz. You probably don’t know Phreakz… their operative word is “The world is free for me.”

      5. So; We are stuck in the 80s again. Only a lonely renegade company like SIERRA ONLINE can succeed in injecting some life into the scene. Let’s hope the battle has begun.

    • #26975 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Matt, as far as I know Josh Mandel didn’t actively work (as in design or program) on AGDI’s games. He just did the voice for King Graham, which he also did back in the old days for Sierra and is now doing for the KQ9 fan project. However, we are told that Mandel is working on the unofficial SQ7 project as lead writer/designer.

      And talking about KQ9, it is/will not be a “pure adventure game”. From what I’ve seen it contains several RPG elements and is set in a large, RPG-like world with multiple quests, etc. I could be wrong on this however, as that team have chopped and changed their game quite a few times over the last several years.

      I do agree with you on that last point – please, no more remakes or fangames. Adventure games is an emerging market. If your team can produce an adventure game based on an original concept with original characters and that is actually good and worthwhile to play, then serious money can be made. Just don’t shoot yourself in the foot by claiming (like a certain development studio recently did) that you single-handedly saved adventure games. Such comments go a long way towards alienating fans who realise (and appreciate) that many different companies have contributed towards keeping adventure gaming alive during its darker years.

    • #26976 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “… (by Johann de Waal)
      I do agree with you on that last point – please, no more remakes or fangames. Adventure games is an emerging market. If your team can produce an adventure game based on an original concept with original characters and that is actually good and worthwhile to play, then serious money can be made. Just don’t shoot yourself in the foot by claiming (like a certain development studio recently did) that you single-handedly saved adventure games. Such comments go a long way towards alienating fans who realise (and appreciate) that many different companies have contributed towards keeping adventure gaming alive during its darker years.
      …”

      I disagree, but they have fans that love their games so my opinion does not matter! I am not a fan!

      But, if you look at how many other free fangames (original and remake) came out before and after Tierra Entertainment/Anonymous Game Developers, there is a big difference. King’s Quest II+ would not have been possible if they had not released KQ1 remake first. They got others going by showing it’s possible (in both cases, they just updated the graphics, increased the quality of the music, added a Point-Click to KQ2) which showed to everyone:

      Guess what! You can make your own games!

      I think this was their goal; Tierra took over King’s Quest — for free! I personally think King’s Quest 3 is up next after they remake QFG2, but I could be wrong. Just because they aren’t selling the games doesn’t mean they haven’t taken it over. KQ9 is following in the footsteps of KQ8 which is: Radical different gameplay with each chapter (if indeed it turns out to be an RPG).

      They aren’t looking to sell their games, so it doesn’t matter. They don’t have a job, but they have “make it their job”, by creating the games and allowing you to play them for free. They don’t require money to label it a success. They just did it. They are lucky they have the freetime to do this, as most people have to make a living instead of making free videogames.

      I would like to see more 3-D sprites in 3-D pre-rendered environments. Online. If it’s original content, then it’s good to go!

      3-D sprites are pre-rendered so you don’t need a 3-D engine running. Backgrounds can have animated 3-D sprites (for flickering torches along the walls). Personally if I was AGDI, I would ditch 2-D cartoon drawings and try 3-D cartoon ala Grim Fandango.

      The problem with the existing 3-D Adventure games like I am describing (see the Internet for: Riddle of the Sphinx, Dracula Resurrection and other DreamCatcher Games), is: No Multiplayer. In my opinion.

      Johann, are there any adventure games you have played recently that you would pay $50 for? I would pay $50 for Grim Fandango 2…

    • #26977 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      I believe AGDI’s contribution to the gaming industry is rather over-inflated. Regardless, I still appreciate the amount of work they put into their projects. And I am keeping an eye on Al Emmo’s development.

      Regarding the realisation that gamers can finally make their own games, I don’t think that’s quite right. Gamers have always been able to make their own games. That’s where the whole industry was born – with people sitting in their bedrooms making games until the wee hours of the morning. Just consider the likes of David Braben, Geoff Crammond, Archer Mclean, Peter Molyneaux, etc. And I’m pretty sure Ken and Roberta would have something to add about that early to mid-80s period as well.

      However, if you are talking about modern-day gamers creating their own games independently, then I would agree that Chris Jones, and generous folks like him, have indeed greatly assisted non-programmers (like myself) in fullfilling their ambitions. AGDI is however only been one group (of many) that has prospered from the emergence of these (relatively) easy to use engines/tools like AGS, Wintermute, etc.

      Anyway, I don’t mind if we all hold different points-of-view on the matter. After all, debate is healthy! And regarding paying $50 for a game (that translates into a lot of money down here, by the way) – I just about never buy a game (of whatever type) at full-price. I don’t believe in software piracy either. I’d rather go to the trouble of looking for bargains and good second-hand deals. Even with brand new games, if you’re willing to put in the time and effort, I can guarantee you you’ll find them on special somewhere (in this country at least).

    • #26978 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “… (by Ken Williams) (re: re: re: Leave plot/storyline/puzzles unaltered in a remake, otherwise it’s an entirely different game) I haven’t commented on this topic, only because I’m still sidetracked. I’m on a boat in the middle of nowhere — with a rotten internet connection.

      Actually — I really don’t have much of an opinion. I doubt that anyone will get sued. But, I also doubt that a fan game can ever make money, and there is a side of me that is still capitalistic. I have trouble taking anything seriously that doesn’t have as a goal to make money. My problem with fan games is that they take LOTS of work, but the ultimate marketability of the product is handicapped — so, either the game never finishes, or, when it is done, its ultimate distribution is limited (by the fact it can’t attract a first-tier publisher).

      In short — I have no problem with fan games — but, I would prefer to see people that work hard and do great things receive compensation that reflects the value of their efforts. This isn’t possible with a fan game.

      -Ken W …”

      Surely you feel more than just ”okay” with it, I mean these are Fans from over 20 years ago that still have that eternal flame, since Sierra or any other company want to make games like they were its up to us Fans.

      Does this mean that you could make a fan game and make it so people have to buy it?

      Peace n’ Love,
      -Robin

    • #26979 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Hello everyone,

      My name is Neil Rodrigues and I’m the Assistant Director of PR & Web as well as the Director of Programming at King’s Quest IX: Every Cloak Has a Silver Lining. I just noticed this thread a few days ago, but I will clear up some of the misconceptions people have posted here.

      Quote:
      “… (by Johann de Waal) Matt, as far as I know Josh Mandel didn’t actively work (as in design or program) on AGDI’s games. He just did the voice for King Graham, which he also did back in the old days for Sierra and is now doing for the KQ9 fan project. However, we are told that Mandel is working on the unofficial SQ7 project as lead writer/designer….”

      Josh Mandel isn’t doing the voice of King Graham in our project. Perhaps you are confusing us with AGDI’s KQ1VGA/KQ2VGA. We have a very talented voice actor doing the voice of King Graham. He actually sounds a bit better than Mandel in my opinion. You can listen for yourself to a preliminary sound clip we have, called “Edgar & Graham” on our Sound Clips page.

      Quote:
      “… (by Johann de Waal)
      And talking about KQ9, it is/will not be a “pure adventure game”. From what I’ve seen it contains several RPG elements and is set in a large, RPG-like world with multiple quests, etc. I could be wrong on this however, as that team have chopped and changed their game quite a few times over the last several years.
      …”
      I am not sure where you got the idea that we are making an RPG. King’s Quest IX will be a 3D screen-to-screen adventure game. It will have a point-and-click interface and inventory system, just like all the previous games. The game is divided into nine chapters and will have magic system, but the magic system is not like one you would find in an RPG. For more information on our game, please visit the Info section of our site.

      Thanks,

      -=Yonkey=-
      Neil Rodrigues
      Assistant Director of Public Relations & Web
      Director of Programming
      Unofficial King’s Quest IX
      http://www.kq9.org&nbsp;

    • #26980 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      I think the AGDI’s plan to stop the company or just keep it active, I doubt they would make a nother gam because they are way too busy with himalaya studios, which seems to be well under way to release their new original title.

      KQ2 & KQ1 Remake, hmmm? Wheree shall I start? There no words I can discribe how good they are, and how the AGDI’s have contributed to the Sierra on-line community, just because Sierra is dead does not mean us (fans) can not make our own games, QFG2vga is going to be a hit, just like their other titles, they are one of the very very few companies that have 2 complete projects under their belt, and a third on its way.

      I would like to see a Conquests of Camelot remake, although there are some really annoying copy protection puzzles. o_O

      Thats just my 2 cents.

      Keep the dream alive,
      -Robin

    • #26981 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Yonkey, how long have you been with the KQ9 team? A month?

      I’m not trying to be offensive, but seriously, that production has been toing and froing for so many years that there exists no clear conception in the public eye of what KQ9 will end up being.

      You may not realise this but the PR material put out over the last several years (by your team) have on a fundamental level represented KQ9 in a wide variety of guises. At one time it may have been an adventure game in the classic point and click style, while at another it boasted enough RPG elements that it really couldn’t qualify as an adventure game anymore.

      Anyway, aesthetically the game looks great – similar to how I hoped Sierra’s adventures would someday turn out. Good luck with finishing the game!

    • #26982 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      I gotta admit Neil it was kind of funny the way you jumped in with your “typical PR-type” answers. But keep up the good work. I don’t agree Johann that the presentation of what kind of game KQIX will be has been ambiguous, but I haven’t followed the project thoroughly. From all the concept art and screenshots and such that have been gradually released from the start, I always imagined it would be a true adventure. But I never got onto the forums or read any of the other updates. Anyway, I’m more excited about KQIX than any other upcoming fan game. I can’t wait to see it finished.

      Hero6 has been “toing and froing” longer than KQIX has.

      Oh, and how can you have an actor better at sounding like Graham than Josh Mandel since the sound of Graham is Josh Mandel?

    • #26983 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      I’m sorry to say this but working on a fangame seems like a complete waste of time to me. Why doesn’t the group at KQ9.org spend their time and energy (and talent, they obviously have some) developing a new and original game with a fresh story, characters and world. You don’t have to leech off someone else’s brand recognition to make a cool (adventure) game.

    • #26984 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      To really get a feel for the KQ9.org project, I advise you folks to check out their forums. They really highlight why the project won’t work.. or at least won’t be released for a long time.

      – Alistair

    • #26985 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      I just browsed through their forums and they’re really vague about a release date. I get the impression that the final release date of KQ9 will most likely coincide with that of Duke Nukem Forever …

    • #26986 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Brandon, I was under the impression that development on Hero6 had been discontinued.

      And I agree with Barry, if you’re going to go to the trouble of developing a large, aesthetically pleasing and technologically sound game (even if it’s only for the sake of learning how to develop a game), then surely it would be best to go for the gold first time out.

    • #26987 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Hero 6 was one of the very first fan projects ever if I remember correctly, QFG has always been much bigger than the average KQ game. You must under stand that it may take 3 years fo an average KQ fan game and maybe 4 for a QFG fan game, it takes much more time to beta test and create. I’m sure Hero6 will finish soon. 🙂

    • #26988 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      “QFG has always been much bigger than the average KQ game”

      I dunno, are QFG games really that much bigger? Of course, you can’t count the early King’s Quests because they were released before the first QFG game. The seemingly larger size of a QFG game comes from having extra puzzles / solutions for the different character classes, as well as the RPG elements such as combat.

      “You must under stand that it may take 3 years fo an average KQ fan game and maybe 4 for a QFG fan game, it takes much more time to beta test and create.”

      I’m not sure what you’re referencing there. I don’t know what the development time of QFG4.5 was, but I doubt it was 4 years. The only KQ fan games released have been the AGDI games, and they were in development for less than 2 years each I believe. The average SQ fan game, Lost Chapter and Replicated, I don’t think took 3 or 4 years, but I may be wrong, and both those games were created mostly by only one person. So in general I would say any average Sierra fan game with an average-sized team shouldn’t take longer than 2 years. I think most people know that Hero6 has had its share of problems, so it’s understandable that it’s not finished yet. As for KQIX, I don’t think you can call it an average fan game.

    • #26989 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Hello again,

      For some reason, this forum never notified me of any replies to my post. I apologize for not seeing these until now.

      Quote:
      “… (by Johann de Waal) Yonkey, how long have you been with the KQ9 team? A month?

      I’m not trying to be offensive, but seriously, that production has been toing and froing for so many years that there exists no clear conception in the public eye of what KQ9 will end up being.
      …”
      Actually, I have been with the team for almost 2 years now. The fact that you do not know who I am, makes me believe that your opinions of our game are based on VERY old and outdated information which have changed so drastically, that even I am unaware of it as a Director.

      Quote:
      “… (by Johann de Waal)
      You may not realise this but the PR material put out over the last several years (by your team) have on a fundamental level represented KQ9 in a wide variety of guises. At one time it may have been an adventure game in the classic point and click style, while at another it boasted enough RPG elements that it really couldn’t qualify as an adventure game anymore.
      …”
      Being the Assistant Director of Public Relations, I am fully aware of all KQ9 PR material posted over the past 2 years and not once was it ever described as an RPG or featuring RPG elements. But regardless of what was said 2+ years ago, I have read the plot entirely, seen 2D and 3D artwork created by the team, and work with the game engine itself almost everyday. I can assure you that there are no RPG elements in King’s Quest IX, and that it is an adventure game. 🙂

      Quote:
      “… (by Brandon Klassen)
      Oh, and how can you have an actor better at sounding like Graham than Josh Mandel since the sound of Graham is Josh Mandel?
      …”
      Well, I meant better in terms of acting ability and expression while matching the same vocal tone, but you can listen to the sound clip hear for yourself. When we post more sound clips in the future, you will better understand what I mean.

      Quote:
      “… (by Barry) I just browsed through their forums and they’re really vague about a release date. I get the impression that the final release date of KQ9 will most likely coincide with that of Duke Nukem Forever ……”
      The release date will be announced when we are ready. If you are subscribed to our Newsletter, you be notified as soon as we make the announcement, as well as other important updates.

      Quote:
      “… (by Brandon Klassen) As for KQIX, I don’t think you can call it an average fan game.
      …”
      I definitely agree. KQIX is a lot bigger than any previous King’s Quest game, in every aspect. 🙂

      -=Yonkey=-
      Neil Rodrigues
      Assistant Director of Public Relations & Web
      Director of Programming
      Unofficial King’s Quest IX
      http://www.kq9.org&nbsp;

    • #26990 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      “For some reason, this forum never notified me of any replies to my post. I apologize for not seeing these until now.”

      There’s been a change how this is handled. If you used to receive email notifications but don’t anymore, you need to go to “My Account” (while you are in the forums, it’s the third item in the options at the top of every page) and then press “Request Email Notification of New Postings To This Message Board”. Note that you have to do this for each of the different boards that you enter from the main SierraGamers.com site.

      Brandon.

    • #26991 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Thanks! I actually did set up my notifications again, and just received one. 🙂

      -=Yonkey=-
      Neil Rodrigues
      Assistant Director of Public Relations & Web
      Director of Programming
      Unofficial King’s Quest IX
      http://www.kq9.org&nbsp;

    • #26992 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “…
      The release date will be announced when we are ready.
      …”

      What I don’t understand is that, on one side, your group claims to “work like a company” (quote from Saydmell Salazar, your PR Director) but on the other side cannot even set a decent deadline. I’m not sure what kind of experience you have with working for an actual company, but trust me, if you tell your boss or your customers that it’s done when it’s done without giving them at least an indication of a deadline, they won’t be happy.

      I also noted some stabs at Tierra by your group members in the KQ9 forum (“you can’t compare the game production of them as the one we handle” or “we are working on a 3d engine with crystal space, with a complete indepth plot, very unlike what Tierra has released so far”), which I think is a bit childish. Personally, I do not care for Tierra’s games but at least they know how to release games, which is more than I can say for the KQ9 project.

    • #26993 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      “you can’t compare the game production of them as the one we handle”

      That statement comparing KQIX with AGDI is probably true, as KQIX has a lot more staff and their game is a lot more complex in all departments than AGDI’s remakes.

      “with a complete indepth plot, very unlike what Tierra has released so far”

      I would disagree there, as I think AGDI did a good job with the plot on their KQ2VGA remake.

      Anyway, I don’t know the context from which these quotes were lifted, but regardless this discussion continuing in this manner isn’t really constructive. If you have constructive comments to offer about KQIX or AGDI, that’s fine. If you want to get into other discussions, please do that on the KQIX or the AGDI forums.

    • #26994 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “… (by Barry)
      What I don’t understand is that, on one side, your group claims to “work like a company” (quote from Saydmell Salazar, your PR Director) but on the other side cannot even set a decent deadline. I’m not sure what kind of experience you have with working for an actual company, but trust me, if you tell your boss or your customers that it’s done when it’s done without giving them at least an indication of a deadline, they won’t be happy….”

      I never said there was no deadline or release date for the game. I just said it will only be announced (publicly) when we are ready. Our team works through weekly assignments, deadlines, meetings and progress reports. One important thing to remember is that while we work like a company, we are not a company. Just like all the other fan groups out there, we are not being paid for our time and effort spent on creating this game, nor will we receive any income from this product once it is completed. Because of this, other real life priorities such as school and work always take precedence over development, which in turn affect deadlines. I’m sorry if you are an “unhappy customer”, but you shouldn’t make demands when you’re getting something for free. We are striving to create a very high-quality, cinematic-like game and trust me, it will be worth the wait.

      Quote:
      “… (by Barry)
      I also noted some stabs at Tierra by your group members in the KQ9 forum (“you can’t compare the game production of them as the one we handle” or “we are working on a 3d engine with crystal space, with a complete indepth plot, very unlike what Tierra has released so far”), which I think is a bit childish. Personally, I do not care for Tierra’s games but at least they know how to release games, which is more than I can say for the KQ9 project. …”

      Those comments weren’t an attack on Tierra, they were reinforcing what our Project Director had said in the forum post just before it:

      “Had we decided to use Tierra’s interface and graphics, this game would have been released a long while ago. However, because we are a full 3D game, with the best graphical quality we can give, it’ll take us longer.” – César Bittar

      In other words, you cannot compare KQ9 to KQ2VGA because they are two completely different games. We are using: 3D graphics and animations, a completely different game engine designed for first person shooters rather than adventure games, a massive 2000+ page script, completely original musical themes, and more! We are good friends with AGDI and we highly respect them as a fan group. I enjoyed playing KQ2VGA, but comparing it to KQ9 is like comparing apples to oranges.

      -=Yonkey=-
      Neil Rodrigues
      Assistant Director of Public Relations & Web
      Director of Programming
      Project Coordination
      Unofficial King’s Quest IX
      http://www.kq9.org&nbsp;

    • #26995 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “… (by Yonkey )I’m sorry if you are an “unhappy customer”, but you shouldn’t make demands when you’re getting something for free.
      …”

      I’m not a “customer” because I will probably never play this game. First of all, because I don’t like adventure games in 3D and secondly because I do not care for someone else’s view on what happens next in the KQ universe. If I play another KQ game it has to be written by Roberta Williams, the rest are just cheap knock-offs no matter how good they play or look. It’s like buying an imitation Rolex and pretending that it’s real, with the only difference being that it doesn’t take the manufacturer 4 years to make said Rolex…

      Quote:
      “… (by Yonkey )
      In other words, you cannot compare KQ9 to KQ2VGA because they are two completely different games. We are using: 3D graphics and animations, a completely different game engine designed for first person shooters rather than adventure games, a massive 2000+ page script, completely original musical themes, and more!
      …”

      It’s not like you have to write the entire 3D engine yourself. If you don’t want to compare yourself to AGDI then compare yourself to the groups that make Mods for FP shooters, I don’t remember Counterstrike taking 4 years to develop.

      Anyway, I agree with Brandon that I should stop this discussion. I just have a strong opinion with regards to fanmade games. I think that it’s ok to do a spoof (i.e. QfG4.5), but that’s it. If the Sierra games have inspired you and you want to make your own game then why not make an original game, with it’s own story, world and characters? Sierra didn’t get where they (unfortunately) were by ripping off other stories, they were original, fangames are not.

    • #26996 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      For someone that will probably never play the game, you seem to care an awful lot about our release date. Also, it’s been 7 years since Roberta’s last game. Wow, you must be almost twice as unhappy with her as you are with us!

      Regarding Counter-Strike, King’s Quest IX is not a first person shooter or a Mod to Half-Life. If that’s the kind of game you want King’s Quest IX to be (you must, since that’s what you compare it to), then you right — you should probably never play our game, or any fan games for that matter.

      Lastly, Sierra’s stories weren’t completely original, especially the King’s Quest ones. Many puzzles were “ripped off” from fairytales and mythology: Three Goats Gruff, Jack & the Beanstalk, Hansel & Gretel, Neptune, Little Red Riding Hood, Medusa, etc.

      Since you don’t have anything constructive to say about us or fan games, I agree with Brandon because there is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

      -=Yonkey=-
      Neil Rodrigues
      Assistant Director of Public Relations & Web
      Director of Programming
      Project Coordination
      Unofficial King’s Quest IX
      http://www.kq9.org&nbsp;

    • #26997 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      My ol’ pappy had a saying that I believe applies here. He’d say…

      “Son, there are two levers in life; lever A and lever B
      and sometimes you just gotta leave ‘er be.”

      — Cody

    • #26998 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “… (by Barry)
      What I don’t understand is that, on one side, your group claims to “work like a company” (quote from Saydmell Salazar, your PR Director) but on the other side cannot even set a decent deadline. I’m not sure what kind of experience you have with working for an actual company, but trust me, if you tell your boss or your customers that it’s done when it’s done without giving them at least an indication of a deadline, they won’t be happy.
      …”

      Barry, why is it that id Software had exactly the same approach with all their games in the Quake and Doom series? They are obviously not a proper company either. Wake up brother and stop being a troll.

    • #26999 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “… (by Ants Bull)
      Barry, why is it that id Software had exactly the same approach with all their games in the Quake and Doom series? They are obviously not a proper company either. Wake up brother and stop being a troll….”

      Ehm, maybe it’s because ID Software (and Valve for that matter) wrote their own 3D engines? Most of the development time was spent on the engine, not on the game. Or maybe it’s because ID has already released high quality games in the past and you know what to expect from them?

      I’m not sure why you’re calling me a troll, I may have an unpopular opinion but I feel that I have a valid point: why rip off someone else’s work when you can use your time and talent to create a new and original game?

      Anyway, to each his own, discussing this any further seems like a waste of time, especially with the kind of replies I get from Yonkey (you can’t be serious).

    • #27000 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Hello guys,

      I’m César Bittar, Project Director of KQIX. I’m sure a couple of you know me already 😉

      Quote:
      “… (by Barry)

      I’m not a “customer” because I will probably never play this game. First of all, because I don’t like adventure games in 3D and secondly because I do not care for someone else’s view on what happens next in the KQ universe. If I play another KQ game it has to be written by Roberta Williams, the rest are just cheap knock-offs no matter how good they play or look. It’s like buying an imitation Rolex and pretending that it’s real, with the only difference being that it doesn’t take the manufacturer 4 years to make said Rolex…

      …”

      It took Sierra 3 years and a couple of delays to release Gabriel Knight 3 with a full paid staff. If you want to talk about professional companies’ products “release dates”, take a look at Sierra’s Half Life 2 or Square’s Final Fantasy XII. We didn’t know when HL2 was going to be released until basically the release date, and we still don’t know when Final Fantasy XII will be released after almost 4 years in production. Both of these projects had/have incredible high budgets to work with.

      Also, we’ve received a nod from both Roberta and Ken on the little stuff they’ve seen from King’s Quest IX, and they are basically the two people we care the most when it comes to approving or disapproving what we are doing.

      Sincerely,

      César Bittar
      Project Director
      Unofficial KQIX Development Team
      http://www.kq9.org&nbsp;

    • #27001 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Barry has obviously rubbed Mr. Rodrigues and Mr. Bittar the wrong way, and even Barry can admit that his later posts are undoubtedly instigative… but, to be honest with you all, Barry does have an interesting point; albeit, in a goading manner. The one issue that he raised that I think actually deserves a response is “Why continue the King’s Quest saga? …why not make an original game?” I’m really curious as to what brought together a group of people to unofficially continue the series with a ninth installment. Was it simply a homage to Sierra’s efforts? …or were there things that the KQ9 team always wished Sierra would have done in the original games? …or is this a steppingstone to something even bigger? I’m actually curious… and I’m not trying to be a jerk.

      And take this as you will…

      A while ago I gathered people’s opinions on the idea of an online adventure game. I had all sorts of negative comments thrown at me throughout the thread. I received childish “Who’d want to play your stupid game?” responses to well thought out “I believe your game will not appeal to the masses because…” replies. Regardless of how articulate or crass the feedback was, I responded with genuine concern to the posts as to why the person did not like my gaming concept.

      And you know what happened? Soon, the thread was teeming with constructive criticism… because the people who were just trying to ruffle my feathers didn’t get a rise out of me. In fact, I even had a few of the would-be troublemakers apologize to me later on in the thread because the topic kept taking interesting twists and they still wanted to participate in the discussion.

      Basically, Barry obviously has something against the KQ9 project, but instead of trying to find out what it is; we have KQ9 people defending their game, and themselves to some degree, in a reactive manner. Not a good thing for anybody, if you ask me. In fact, Neil kind of treads close to shining a bad light on Sierra’s borrowed fairytale concepts, in my opinion. Definitely not a good thing… especially from the Assistant Director of Public Relations.

      Anyway, everyone should take a pill. Besides, if people are actually going to take the time to respond to Barry’s comments, why not ask him why he’s making those comments instead of fueling the fire?

      Food for thought.

      — Cody

    • #27002 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Cody, you’re right. I’ve reread my previous responses and they are indeed ‘somewhat’ inflammatory. I’m sorry if I came across as a jerk because I didn’t mean to, it’s just that I have a strong (and obviously unpopular) opinion when it comes to fanmade games.

      I will try to give some insight into my motivations, and hope that we can continue this thread in a constructive manner:

      * Why I care about a release date : I’ve seen so many pretentious announcements for fangames that afterwards slowly withered and died that I am highly skeptical about any fangame that doesn’t have at least an indication of a release date. Even though KQ9 has stuck around for quite a long time now, I believe that without a release date (or a release) even the most hardcore groupie will eventually lose interest and the project will just fade away.

      * Why I do not like fangames : I believe that only the original author may decide what happens next in the story and world of a game. No matter how hard you try you can never continue the story in the way that the original author intended. Consider it this way, maybe you can paint just as good as Van Gogh but no matter how good you are, your painting will never be a real Van Gogh, at best it’s just a really good forgery.

      * Why I read about fangames, even though I don’t like them : Pure curiousity. I visit the same forums as the people who make fangames (because we both share an interest in Sierra games and adventure games in general), so when a new game is announced I take a look.

      * Why I feel that we need original adventure games : The adventure genre has been declared dead by many. For the genre to get back some of its mainstream appeal you need to attract new gamers. A game such as KQ9 has a considerable backstory and this makes it virtually inaccessible to new gamers. A new game with a fresh story doesn’t have this problem. “So what?” you may think. Well, keep in mind that you need to keep running to stand still. If you’re only developing games for the in-crowd then eventually there will be noone left to play those games and the adventure genre will have truly died.

    • #27003 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      “so many pretentious announcements for fangames…”

      Very true, but don’t you think all the screenshots and concept art (that is continually updated) on the KQ9 website show that the game is progressing, and show that the project won’t fade away? I think you’ll get disagreement that a release date, or an indication is neccessary. Now if KQ9 group hardly ever told you what they were doing, didn’t show screenshots, didn’t have online chats and only had a dinky little website, then yeah I’d say most people would consider that there’s a chance the project would just fade away. But I really don’t think your argument on this point will convince many people.

      “I believe that only the original author may decide what happens next in the story”

      True again, and I wouldn’t argue that. At the same time, I do believe there are talented writers out there who can write very convincingly the world of the original author. If you stuck 100% to that statement, then you would never watch a spin-off from the original Star Trek, or read a Star Trek novel that wasn’t written by Gene Roddenberry. See what I mean? You can argue the details of my argument, but that won’t change the premise of it. Again, from what KQIX team has shown so far, I believe they are competent to carry the KQ story, and that they have more going for them than an average fan project. But you would only be able to judge that once the game is released.

      “eventually there will be noone left to play those games”

      On the other hand, if you successfully remake or make a fan sequel for King’s Quest, you immediately have an audience. And there are new companies making new adventure games (such as Harvest Moon, comprised of former LucasArts folk). I don’t think a fan adventure is going to make a big impact on the industry. But a fan adventure based on a successful genre is going to be recognized, and if that fan group then continues to make an original game, they will receive more recongition because of what they did first. I know that’s the thinking behind AGDI. I don’t know what the thinking behind KQIX is. But furthermore, if I had the chance to make a game follow-up to one of the beloved series, and I thought I / my group had the talent to do it justice, then I would! I think it shows a serious love for Sierra’s old games, and not a disrespect for the original author. Some argue it’s a waste of time, that could be put to making an original game. Re-read from top of paragraph 🙂

    • #27004 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      First of all, It wasn’t my intention to sound defensive. It just basically grows a little old when people who have no idea of all the effort put into our project comes and just bashes it in such a disrespectful way, without first really finding out the intentions behind the creators.

      Why a sequel to King’s Quest IX? Truly, I never thought we’d come this far. I was just one night surfing the web for info on a possible KQ sequel and came across the team. They were looking for writers, which is what I enjoy doing, and I said “why not? This sounds cool.” I applied and got hired. A year later, after nothing was getting done, I became Project Director and it was then when things started. At the time, I never imagined this game could look and feel this good. At the time, we were a group disappointed by the downfall of Sierra and the abrupt end to the series and we wanted to continue it. The story was born at that time, and we’ve all become so attached to it, that even when it would be a better route to create an original game instead of a sequel to KQ, we all love it too much. King’s Quest is not even my favorite series, but today, it’s our second home.

      We are taking the game to a place where Roberta would have probably not taken it, but then again, we never claimed to be Roberta and try to fill in her shoes. This is our vision of King’s Quest. Some may disagree, and that’s totally valid, but opinions are opinions, not to be used in a disrespectful way.

      I fully agree with Brandon on something here: While Roberta is the most rightful person to write a KQIX, if she doesn’t want to, and won’t do a King’s Quest IX, why can’t someone else continue it? Especially when she expressed she was happy to see someone continuing the legacy, the universe she created. We have her permission in that sense, and her support. If it was wrong to continue someone else’s work, there would be so many faded stories out there that are still part of our lives. Or, Barry, let me ask you, do you hate and did not see the Lord of the Rings trilogy movies just because Tolkiens did not write the screenplay and Peter Jackson directed it instead? Do you not like the idea that superheroes like Batman, Superman, SpiderMan, etc, are still alive even when their original creators are now dead? Even the Space Quest Series did not have the same designers all the way through. I could name infinite of cases where others have taken the work of someone and continued it, but I guess I already made my point.

      On the release date, again, we have a tentative release date, but we won’t announce it until we are 100% sure we’ll make it. In the meanwhile, we’ll keep on giving you guys updates on the progress.

      Finally, KQIX does have a considerable backstory, and, being a film/screenwriting student, I am really aware of the to-do and not-to-do elements of a sequel. The number one mistake of many sequels is the fact that they throw you in the world presuming you already know who the characters are. To make a sequel work you must treat every story as if nothing had been exposed in previous installments, which is the case of King’s Quest IX. I made sure that every little detail of relevance from past KQ that are revisited in KQIX, were explained througly, as if there were no games prior to this one. Of course, there’s always the things that true KQ fans will enjoy the most, knowing exactly where they come from, but to a newcomer, the story still makes perfect sense and all the information necessary to understand the plot is given. For example, one of the main storylines of the plot deals with Valanice’s imprisoment in the tower and the events that took place around it. When writing that section of the game, I didn’t assume people had played King’s Quest II. I retold the plot elements of King’s Quest II that were necessary to understand what is going on, without falling in over-expository unnecessary explanation.

      With all that said, I don’t expect to convince you to play or even follow the progress of King’s Quest IX. I’m just asking for a little more respect towards the 50+ individuals that are doing this out of passion and with the only reward of making some people happy. I accept your apologies, and please, take mine.

      This is our choice, our dream, and something that we really enjoy doing. If you don’t like it, we’ll respect that, but please, respect our views as well.

      Sincerely,

      César Bittar
      Project Director
      Unofficial KQIX Development Team
      http://www.kq9.org&nbsp;

    • #27005 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      Quote:
      “… (by Barry) …it’s just that I have a strong (and obviously unpopular) opinion when it comes to fanmade games. …”
      No worries, man. I’m pretty cynical when it comes to fan-made content/games as well. When someone thinks they can just pick up wherever the original developers left off, I cringe. I do; and it’s not meant as a negative comment… I’m just being truthful. When you’re a fan of the original content… you become a fan of the people who developed the content as well (and sometimes, even more so). Fans can be very protective of what and who they admire. I think that’s why you, Barry, are so critical about fan-made games… or you might just be like me and love arguing for argument’s sake. 😉

      To be honest, I agree with some of Barry’s comments about fan-made games, but… I also realize that most fan-made games are simply tributes to the originators. Everybody should be allowed to worship his or her heroes… even in the form of a game. I honestly couldn’t see myself making a game based on someone else’s work, but I constantly use other people’s work for inspiration. That said, I’ll probably still give KQIX a try when it comes out… not because it’s based on the King’s Quest games, but because it looks like it has merit on its own.

      I wish the KQIX team the best of luck.

      Quote:
      “… (by Cesar Bittar) This is our choice, our dream, and something that we really enjoy doing. If you don’t like it, we’ll respect that, but please, respect our views as well. …”
      Well said, César.

      — Cody

    • #27006 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      As a remaker, rather than a ‘continuer’ of the KQ series let me reply to some of the points you’ve raised, Barry.

      Quote:
      “…
      * Why I care about a release date : I’ve seen so many pretentious announcements for fan games that afterwards slowly withered and died that I am highly sceptical about any fan game that doesn’t have at least an indication of a release date. Even though KQ9 has stuck around for quite a long time now, I believe that without a release date (or a release) even the most hardcore groupie will eventually lose interest and the project will just fade away.
      …”

      Most fan game teams (and even many commercial ones) make it their policy not to estimate release dates, as customers will then hold them to their word and cry foul if the game isn’t released when they specified. In the world of game development anything can happen. Things often end up running over schedule and taking much longer than was originally anticipated – even when you get a good run and things go smoothly. Sometimes things have to be redone from scratch, redrawn or reprogrammed. Beta testing itself always takes up an indeterminate amount of time, because by that point in development, you’re searching for bugs that even the developers aren’t aware of. There’s no telling about the severity of bugs that may be found, nor how long they may take to fix. All of these things factor into releasing a game, and make it near impossible to give an accurate estimate. KQ1VGA took 6 months to make. KQ2VGA took 1 year. I originally expected QFG2VGA to take about 2 years to finish, but it’s been in development for 4 now. Even judging by past experiences, predicting release dates doesn’t get any easier.

      Quote:
      “…* Why I do not like fan games : I believe that only the original author may decide what happens next in the story and world of a game. No matter how hard you try you can never continue the story in the way that the original author intended. Consider it this way, maybe you can paint just as good as Van Gogh but no matter how good you are, your painting will never be a real Van Gogh, at best it’s just a really good forgery….”

      I’m not going to try and alter anyone’s opinion here. Believe me, we’ve had our share of dissenters over the years and doing so is an act of futility. So instead, let me give you the information, straight from the horse’s mouth. 🙂

      In many cases, the original author often fails to live up to the expectations of their fans. (And I’m NOT speaking about Roberta Williams here; this is just a general comment about many writers/designers.) Take for example, Dawson’s Creek. Halfway through, the original series creator (Kevin Williamson) quit writing for the show because he didn’t like the way things were turning out. They hired new writers and carried on for another few years. When the producers finally wanted to end the show, they decided out of respect for Kevin Williamson as the original writer, to ask him to pen the story so he could finalize things the way he wanted. He did so, and basically undid everything that had been covered in the series up until he stopped writing. He tried to cram everything that he would have liked to have done (had he continued writing for the series) into a double episode! The result was a very awkward series finale that stood out like a sore thumb and was not a very good ending in most fans’ opinions. And although I don’t personally agree with this one… look at what the overwhelming majority people are saying about the Star Wars prequels – despite the fact that George Lucas is behind the helm.

      I believe it to be false that only the original author can continue their own story in a believable way. That’s like saying that there’s no writer on earth talented enough to emulate the original writer’s style. The Curse of Monkey Island wasn’t written by Ron Gilbert, author of the first 2 Monkey Island games, but it’s still accepted as an unforgettable part of that series, and does a fantastic job of matching the previous games’ humour. I think some people take issue with the ‘legitimacy’ of fan sequels masquerading as an official continuation of the original author’s work (rather than the fact that the writing has been taken over by somebody else).

      That said though, AGDI will never make any Sierra game SEQUELS. Personally, I do believe that in order to forge new destinies for the characters (and story) it should be left up to the original designer of the series (or at least they should have dibs on the opportunity). This is why we at AGDI stick only to remakes. That way, even with an overhauled remake such as KQ2VGA, the defining events of the original story are still left in place. So, for example, if a person who’s played only KQ2 AGI talks to someone who’s only played KQ2VGA, they could both have a lucid discussion about the skeleton plot elements and understand what Roberta intended regarding Graham in his travels through Kolyma.

      Now, this certainly doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t PLAY a fan-made sequel like KQ9. Like any form of fan-fiction, these works exist for us to peruse if we desire. They can easily be ignored if one doesn’t believe in them. Each of AGDI’s remakes credits the original designers and carries several visible disclaimers that the game is NOT an official Sierra product, and also that we don’t receive any money (nor even true credit, due to the whole anonymity thing) for our many years of hard work. Really, if someone hasn’t tried a fan game, then they’re in no position to complain as this information is made known to anyone who downloads and installs the game. Everyone else can sleep easy, ignoring it without fear that the original product’s image is being tainted.

      Quote:
      “…* Why I read about fan games, even though I don’t like them : Pure curiosity. I visit the same forums as the people who make fan games (because we both share an interest in Sierra games and adventure games in general), so when a new game is announced I take a look….”

      AGDI’s remakes are fan fiction. Nothing more. They are merely interactive fan fiction in a different form. There are a plethora of sites on the net where fans have written their own stories based on the KQ, QFG, SQ universes. The people who write these stories and create fan websites are the very fans who sustain a public interest level in these vintage Sierra adventure games. This is why they’re still popular today. You say that you enjoy visiting such adventure gaming sites and forums to discuss these issues… consider that without these various forms fan fiction, or fan games for that matter, the legacy of classic Sierra may have died out years ago and you might not have this luxury today.

      Quote:
      “…* Why I feel that we need original adventure games : The adventure genre has been declared dead by many. For the genre to get back some of its mainstream appeal you need to attract new gamers. A game such as KQ9 has a considerable back-story and this makes it virtually inaccessible to new gamers. A new game with a fresh story doesn’t have this problem. “So what?” you may think. Well, keep in mind that you need to keep running to stand still. If you’re only developing games for the in-crowd then eventually there will be no one left to play those games and the adventure genre will have truly died….”

      Today’s fan

    • #27007 Reply
      Unknown,Unknown
      Participant

      (Hmm, there seems to be a limit on how many characters can be posted! Didn’t realize I had typed so much! :D)

      ……

      But by blindly turning your back on them without giving them so much as a chance, this realistically will never happen, as you’re shunning the handful of people with the experience and desire to make it possible.

      People learn best by observation. Pulling apart the old Sierra games and analysing them has many, MANY advantages. It teaches you what made these games so special and how to plan out a similar game so that it maintains the classic charm. Because you have to program every little detail, you discover things that the casual player would never notice. The whole process gives a fan game creator much insight into how a good adventure game should be constructed.

      In addition to our current Sierra remakes, we’ve also been very hard at work on our first commercial adventure game, Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman’s Mine. Trust me when I say that this commercial title would not be turning out the way it is without the experience we’ve gained from remaking Sierra classics. So thanks to Ken, Roberta, Josh and all the other former Sierra employees who helped out and offered words of advice and encouragement — and for making all these great games in the first place! The experience of remaking games is also educational and personal… it is about learning as much as it’s about giving starved fans more old school games to play. In the end, it all seems to work out for everybody – even the dissenters! 🙂

      Oh, and just to touch on a point raised earlier in this thread by various posters, absolutely no disrespect is intended to the Williams’ whatsoever. To even suggest so is absurd! Honestly, we would not spend 2+ years working on a remake if we didn’t utterly enjoy the original and want more people experience it who otherwise wouldn’t have the chance. The statement about the illogical puzzles and dated technology are not jabs at the Roberta, they’re simply retrospective facts that are stated by many modern gamers. Every game has its flaws, and the creators learn from these and use the experience to make a better product next time around. KQ2 was no exception…it had it’s memorable faults, and Roberta did a good job of making sure they weren’t carried over to later KQ games. Something to note is that these things were deemed flaws by public consensus…not merely by our own dev team. This was the majority’s opinion, and we took it into consideration when planning the remake.

      In it’s time, KQ2’s puzzles were, no doubt, deemed challenging. However, this was in the days before the Internet and hint lines, so players were required to think much harder and for longer periods of time without the temptation of resorting to a walkthrough. Most modern players do not have the same kind of persistence. Particularly not non-adventure game players. In order to adapt the game to modern standards of playability (and keep the story flowing at a reasonable pace) we decided to add more logic to some puzzle solutions. In fact, most ‘illogical’ solutions from the original actually remain the same… it’s just that more information was added to hint at why the player should use item X to solve puzzle Y.

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