HOME › Forums › Open Discussion › An interesting discussion with Roberta
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Unknown,Unknown.
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Unknown,Unknown
ParticipantThis isn’t exactly about computer games, but…
Roberta and I went to the movies last night, and saw the film “21 Grams”. I don’t want to say too much about the film because it would spoil the movie for others.
It isn’t a Christmas film. It’s horribly depressing. It’s also extremely well made, and likely to be nominated for severals Oscars. I loved it, but not everyone will. If you see it, don’t take the kids. This is NOT a family film.
Anyway… it’s a film that you talk about after it’s over. As Roberta and I were driving home, I compared the film to an adventure game. “21 Grams” is similar to the film “Memento”, in that the story is out of sequence – WAY out of sequence. It’s as if all the film clips were dropped on the floor, then reassembled randomly.
I compared the film to an adventure game because the watching experience was not passive. I spent two hours trying to decipher the plot. It was a VERY intellectual experience. Exactly like an adventure game. You could look around the theater and see everyone’s mind working.
“21 Grams” is a film you won’t forget. As you are trying to determine what the film is about, you are simultaneously being dragged along on an emotional roller coaster. Yet, because of the non-linear sequence of the narration, most of the major plot points are telegraphed to you long before the events happen in the film. If you are paying attention, the film contains no surprises. One reviewer made the interesting comment that if you reassembled this film in the correct sequence, it would still be a good film, but not a great film. The reviewer was puzzled by this. How could the film have more of an emotional impact when you expect everything that happens, as opposed to when you are caught by surprise?
Roberta’s answer to this was worth noting. She believes audiences want to know where the plot is going. They don’t want to be bored, which would happen if the entire plot were so obvious that they don’t need to think. The audience likes it when they believe they have solved a problem, and then later realize they were right.
This is a film which you watch much more closely than other films. Because it’s a “puzzle film,” you watch it at a different level than other films. You study every detail in every frame. When a major event happens, you pat yourself on the back for detective work well done – and, because you are sucked so much deeper into the film than you would be under normal circumstances, the emotional impact isn’t lost; it’s intensified.Perhaps this is a new genre in film: the puzzle movie.
-Ken W
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Unknown,Unknown
Participant(re: An interesting discussion with Roberta)
mmm. I’ll have to check this movie out. I loved Memento because of the amount of thought I had to put into it.
I think Roberta’s right on about audiences wanting to know where the plot is going. I always think of it as not wanting to feel stupid. If a movie (or a book, or a game) makes me feel like an idiot, I’m not going to enjoy it. I HATED Mullholland Drive because there was nothing for me to grab onto in that movie — I had no idea what was going on at any given time. In the end, I felt like a moron because the movie was entirely unaccessible — something was happening but I was left feeling too stupid to figure it out. But with Memento I caught on and was able to piece things together, even the first time I saw it.
I think it’s the same with a game. If the main character is making connections I can’t make because the story so far hasn’t supported them, I feel stupid. (Kate Walker in Syberia drove me nuts — she kept saying “I don’t need to do that yet” when I told her to pull a lever — she didn’t even know what the lever did! How could she know she didn’t need to pull it yet?) And if the game reaches a conclusion that hasn’t been supported throughout the story, it’s as if the game’s saying “How could you miss that?!” when in reality, the game hasn’t necessarily led me in that direction. It’s much more satisfying if you have an idea of where you’re headed…
-emily
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Unknown,Unknown
Participant(re: An interesting discussion with Roberta)
Sounds like a great movie! This definately made me interested in seeing it.
I think this plot thing is a deep and complicated topic. It’s certainly a fine balance for a writer to make a story surprising and interesting, but still not too obscure. Some directors are amazing at that, which has made them very successful. Like Quentin Tarantino, or – to mention Mulholland Drive again – David Lynch. In Lynch’s case, the plots can involve truly bizarre dreamy sequences that really makes the brain work in the attempt to decipher the deeper messages. It takes great writing to do this and challenge the viewer with surprises without messing up the plot. Another good example of this is the series “24”, which shocks the viewer with new twists in every episode to the point where you can never trust anyone for being the person they appear to be. The fact that this works and not completely alienates the viewers but instead keeps them glued to the screen wanting more hints at some great writing talent.
Isn’t the problem with movie narratives really the same as with adventure games in a way? You must make it possible for the audience to see where the story is going, but you cannot present it so blatantly clear that there is no emotional reward in figuring things out. And it’s nearly impossible to fool the viewer by doing something obvious but disguising it as a clever plot twist. Personally, I’ve recently discovered the wonderful world of anime (Japanese animation) and it’s such a refreshing thing to watch it, simply because there is a tradition of different storytelling in the east that you aren’t used to living on the west hemisphere and watching mostly American and European movies. First of all, the stories are usually much more character-based, with the characters making some sort of emotional journey over the course of the movie. Also, the cultural differences introduces many things that surprises and amazes you. If you’re just going to watch one anime movie, I’d suggest Spirited Away, directed by Hayayo Miyazaki. It’s not a coincidence that this movie won an Academy Award and is the highest grossing movie of all time in Japan. The sheer imagination and beauty of it just sweeps you away into another world, where you never know what to expect. And yet you can relate to it emotionally. Japan is a long, long way ahead of us in the animation department. They have realized that it’s a medium and an artform suitable not only for the kids. You can find virtually any theme and any genre in anime form.
But of course regular movies from the east does these things well too, something that the audience in the west is slowly discovering. Just look at the success of movies like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero, which has not only influenced western filmmakers by their visual style, but also by their storytelling. And Akira Kurosawa will forever be mentioned as one of the most important directors of all time.
So, in summary, if you are looking for something refreshing in movies, look to the east. 🙂
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Unknown,Unknown
Participant(re: An interesting discussion with Roberta)
I don’t know if anyone else would agree, but I found “12 Monkeys” to be a pretty stimulating film about Armageddon. I think I would classify this one as a “puzzle film”…sort of a sci-fi meets philosophy meets prophecy. This may be off topic, but the soundtrack for that one was weak. I really do think the score plays a major role in bringing out one’s emotions (Hans Zimmer is one of the greats). I think a game company in Europe recently published or is in the process of publishing a game in which a full-scale orchestra was used for the music. Maybe other people are realizing the positive impact and influence music has on people.
I will definitely have to check out “21 Grams”. I am always looking for ways to exercise the brain.
P.S. Do you need a date? 🙂
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Unknown,Unknown
Participant(re: re: An interesting discussion with Roberta)
12 Monkeys is a great movie. I think it’s definitely the same type of movie, maybe not as complex (but maybe that’s just because I’ve seen it a thousand times).
🙂 emily
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Unknown,Unknown
Participant(re: An interesting discussion with Roberta)
21 Grams for me wasn’t that memorable when I watched it last December. I thought the movie was a bit too melodramatic.
Memento was great though. I remember while watching it on DVD, I got to thinking it’s just like a computer game. The ending/twist was pretty good and worth the movie. I didn’t get it at first, I had to search the web to complete my understanding of the movie.
Mulholland Drive was a very creepy movie for me. I don’t know why, my mind was just messed up weeks after watching it. Reading some of the interpretations just make it worse. But strangely enough I liked it, I was scared, but it was good. 12 Monkeys was also good, lots of interesting concepts. I kept second-guessing Brad Pitt’s character.
Puzzle/weird/thinking movies are among my favorites. If you enjoy them, I can recommend M. Night Shyamalan’s movies, Unbreakable and Signs. Shyamalan makes thinking movies that sell well to the public.
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Unknown,Unknown
Participant(re: An interesting discussion with Roberta)
Ken:
If you”re a film buff, you”ve probably already seen Kurosawa”s legendary film Rashomon. The film takes the “puzzle” concept one step further, and sends it over the ledge, by introducing the concept that the narrators, or the sources of information in the film, aren”t reliable. A much more graphic, and some would say pedestrian, book and movie to utilize this concept is “American Psycho”.
A widely-acclaimed Nintendo Gamecube console adventure game was the first game I can remember that incorporates this concept directly into a game – the awkwardly-titled “Eternal Darkness – Sanity”s Requiem”. From Gamespot.com:
“The magic system is great, but probably the most interesting gameplay element in Eternal Darkness is the sanity meter and its accompanying effects. When hearing about the sanity aspect of the game, it”s easy to brush it off as a novelty, but nothing could be further from the truth. In the game, as you come across unsightly manifestations of evil, your character”s sanity meter will start to fall. As your meter begins to dwindle, you”ll be cued to the fact that your character is starting to lose his or her grip on reality when blood begins to run down the walls. However, this is just the precursor to the game”s incredibly inventive insanity effects. If your sanity meter hits rock bottom, your character will really start to lose it. Sometimes you”ll enter a room to find you”re walking on the ceiling, or you”ll be placed in a scenario that doesn”t seem quite right. But the sanity effects aren”t confined to affecting the character onscreen–they will also influence you. Without giving away too much, if some technical issues should arise while playing the game, don”t be too quick to take action…”
Was this ever a concept that was considered at Sierra – actually programming the game to mimic technical problems with the player”s computer? The possibilities, and potential lawsuits, boggle the mind!
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